[tractorboy60]

My 140's hydraulics are working very slow. I took it out on Thanksgiving day to plow the driveway with the 54 blade and the hydraulics were working very slow, I thought that maybe something was froze up because it had sat outside (under a lean-to) for a few days. Yesterday I put it in the heated garage. I tried it this morning and the blade still will hardly lift. It has no down pressure and angling the blade takes forever. I added some hydraulic oil yesterday. The last time that I used the machine, everything was working great. The transmission seems to be fine-moving at normal speeds. But how fast the blade lifts depends on the engine RPM's-the slower the engine is running, the faster the blades raises. If the throttle is 3/4 of the way up, the blade won't even move at all. Any ideas?

 

[stanb112]

Shawn, my first thought is that your attachment relief valve may be sticking partially open or not seating fully. This valve releases pressure in the attachment system if an attachment is overloaded and when a cylinder hits the end of its stroke and the control valve is held open. You might be lucky and free the valve by "bouncing" the blade up against the stop and holding the control valve for a second or two after it hits the stop. Try this a couple of times at full throttle. If this doesn't help you'll probably have to measure the attachment pressure with a meter and follow the troubleshooting procedures in the service manual.
Stan

 

[tractorboy60]

I have brought it to the top a couple times and held the lever back for a few seconds-just like we do when we put a new loader on a tractor to build pressure in the lines. Would it be possible that the symptoms I listed could be because of water in the system? The oil on the dipstick seems very thin.

 

[tractorboy60]

Anyone else with any ideas?

 

[Mrcaptainbob]

Check the hydro filter?

 

[tktrain]

I have almost 26 years experience working on hydraulics every day as a hydraulic systems engineer, and my vote is for the relief valve sticking, not seating, or maybe even a broken spring. Broken springs can do strange things. It could be that the lower flow created at reduced engine speed is keeping the relief somewhat closed at a higher pressure, then as the flow increases the relief could "over center" and open more to resist flow at a lower pressure. Try teeing a gauge into one of the valved hoses to see what you are getting in the line at different engine speeds.

This is not a 140, but the basic schematic is the same.

 

[tractorboy60]

My 140 doesn't have a tranny filter. Is that normal? It's harder than hell to change the transmission oil because it doesn't have a filter or a plug. I have to remove a line that goes to the bottom of the tranny to change the oil.


When you say relief valve, where is that? I had the hydraulic control valve out last winter because the up/down for front attachments was screwed up. I replaced the spring and cap, havn't had any problems since then. What do I do to fix this?

 

[kkortman112]

Hi Shawn. Is this on your 1968 140? If so, it should have a drain plug and filter. Here is a page out of the 1968 140 owners manual that shows them, as well as the procedure for changing the oil/filter.

Kent

 

[tractorboy60]

No, sorry I didn't mention that Kent. It's on my 1971 140. (The '68 hit the road after it sold on ebay). And you are correct though, my 1968 did have a filter and plug. This one does not even have a filter. Can you believe that?

 

[kolafson]

Shawn..I must be missing something..I've never seen a 140 without a tranny filter. Yes it is unhandy disconnect the pipe to drain it. The real trick is getting the pipe hooked up again and not cross thread the connection. Good luck. Ken

 

[tractorboy60]

Boys,
I feal pretty dumb right now. I was talking to a couple mechanics yesterday in the shop at the dealer and they also said that there is no way my 140 is without a transmission filter. So we bet on it, because I was positive that I have not seen one on it. I came home and sure enough it has a filter. It was a lot higher that I thought it would be and I guess I just never noticed it. I changed that and the oil and now everything is working. The oil looked very bad and the last of it that drained out basically looked like water from the tap.
Case closed.
Thanks for the help.

BTW, I just found while changing the oil that when you go to put that pipe back on, you can loosen it on the other end and it goes right in. That way is a lot easier than just trying to line it up without loosening it.

 

[kkortman112]

Hi Shawn. Good to hear you got it figured out. I too had never seen a Sundstrand JD type hydro w/o a filter. I would have posted a later type tractor page scan like I did for the '68, but I haven't gotten one scanned yet........

Kent

 

[Mrcaptainbob]

Just a thought here....since it's not been changed for a while, consider replacing this filter after a few hours running. No telling what might've come loose draining out the old...

 

[tktrain]

Shawn, You are one lucky son-of-a-gun! Water in a hydraulic system is usually a disaster. Glad to hear that everything is working out.

 

[tractorboy60]

Thanks again for all your help, and I do consider myself lucky. I changed the transmission oil when I got the tractor 1 year ago but not the filter. It was really bad then because it had sat for a while. It seems like someone who works at a John Deere dealer would be better at keeping up on regular maintenance!

 

[ed_jake]

I'm interested in running the pump for my Hyd Tiller off the 2000 RPM Front PTO on my 430.
If I understand correctly JD did this on the 425 & 445 series.
Can anyone give me any information on what the pump spec's are?
I believe this tiller requires 9 GMP but how much pressure is needed. Also what do the mounts look like.

 

[chuckv]

Ed,

Are you trying to mount a late model 42 Hydraulic tiller to your 430, or trying to re-purpose a 30 hydraulic tiller to front PTO drive from a belly pump? The 30 tiller does indeed require 9 GMP at 2000 PSI. Not at all sure if the 42 later model tillers use the same hydraulic motors to drive their tine shaft, but if they do then the same parameters would apply.

Chuck

 

[ed_jake]

Chuck
I am trying to repurpose (good term) a 30in Tiller to the Front PTO on my 430.
I am afraid I know next to nothing about Hydraulic systems.
After I get this info I am going to have some additional information so I might as well get that out as well. I don't even know what term of measurement the lines are calculated in. Are they measured in Pipe size?
Bob Colebank found a front bracket for the Hyd Pump for a loader that I was able to get. I now am not as concerned about the Physical mounting as I am coming up with a pump that will work.
I have located a pump on the Surplus Center Website that produces 9.8 GPM @ 2000 RPM. It creates 3000 lbs of Pressure at 3000 RPM. This pump runs Clockwise.
I don't know if this is looking at it from the front towards the back or if it is from the rear looking forward.
In short I have a LOT of questions about what I am doing. I went on this Forum after being told that John Deere ran a Hyd Tiller off the front PTO on the 425 and 445 and I understand that they have also done this with the X700 series.
I don't know what these tillers have in common with the tiller I have if anything.
Lots of questions and I don't mean to take a Vintage Problem of Issue on the Late Model Site if it doesn't belong here.
I am also concerned about the cost of this project and want to be as sure as I can be that it will work before I just throw money away.
Any help or direction I can get will be greatly appreciated.

 

[chuckv]

Ed,

The 42 hydraulic tiller is covered in PC2697, whereas the older 30 hydraulic tiller is found in PC1988. Having looked in each, I can now tell you that both the PTO-driven pump and the hydraulic motor on the tine shaft are different numbers and specifications for each of these attachments.

The pump you have found at Surplus Center should be a good match to the motor on the 30H tine shaft if it turns the correct direction for your new location at the front PTO. If you are concerned about the peak pressure, you can plumb in a relief valve at 2000 PSI or so...

The Surplus Center site has a very good tutorial on hydraulics and some useful calculators, but others here may have answers to offer as well. The hydraulics technologies are the same in both vintage and late model tractors, even though the specifics differ some.

Terry can move this thread if it is judged to be more appropriate elsewhere...

Chuck

 

[jdmaninlouky]

Ed -

Not to be Wise-N-Hymer ..., but .

Hydraulic pump rotation is always looking at the input shaft of the pump . Lots' of the geared pumps are "field reversible" so you can switch it with a simple tear down and changing the parts around . Check the specs. on the Surplus Center pump , and see if it is reversible . If so , you're good to go either way .

Now - Are you talking front or mid pto ?? They are the same thing , only different

on 420/430s' . The 4x5 series never ran a pump for a tiller off a front pto , but instead the mid pto . Mid pto's are two entirely different beasts' when comparing the 420/430s' to the 4x5 . 4x5 mid - comes out frontwards from the hydro/diff. The 420/430 mid comes off the front , but goes rearward to be the mid . I know you probably already knew this , but I was confused as to which-whatever-how you where talking about when you said running pump off the front pto . Not trying to split hairs , just wondering BELLY(mid) - or FRONT pto ? Theoretically , it could be either . Just wondering which exactly you plan to use . Anal ; I know , but keep reading ... it gets worse

.

300 series tractors are the only ones that used the 'out-front' pump for a 44 loader . 420/430s' used the mid-pto (belly unit) to run a 44 loader , so if you have a bracket for a front pto pump for a 44 loader , it has to be for a 300 series tractor , not a 430 , which has a wider front frame section . If you where calling the -mid pto - the front , dis-regard this last paragraph .

Dave