[hansonmo]

Gents,

I'm looking at possibly trading my '72 140 H3 with 3-point and 46 deck for an '86 330 with 50" deck. The 140 is in great shape and has been a great tractor. It looks and runs great. The 330 runs good and seems the be in good shape, (though there is some black around the exhaust; is that something to be concerned about?). I understand the differences between the tractors and the appeals of each, but I'd just like to hear your opinions on the two. I use my tractors so utility is important.

If it were you, would you keep the 140 or trade for the 330? Why?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

 

[shadetree]

If it were me, I'd keep the 140 and find someway to buy the 330 outright.

 

[dd57chevy]

How many hours do you use your tractor at a time ? If you spend 1/2 hr mowing or removing snow (like me), your diesel would just be getting warmed up . If you're mowing for 2hrs , that's another story .
Just for me , having to keep another fuel jug AND the initial expense would not be worth it .

 

[hansonmo]

Shady, I am just finishing up building a new house so cash is not something I have a lot of right now. I also don't think the boss would approve the acquisition of a third tractor.

Dave, since it will be used at the new house I'm not sure how long each use will be. Depending on the amount of snow it will probably take 45 minutes to 1 hr 15 min to clear the driveway. The lawn will be just under an acre so it will probably take an hour or so to mow.

 

[shadetree]

Now if you have to put available cash into the formula you do NOT want a 330.

Go to your dealer and price a gallon of 1/2 mix antifreeze.

 

[knottyrope]

Diesel don't take that long to warm up and it will use half the fuel or a gas engine to do the same work.

The diesel might last you a life time where as the 140 could drop its counterweights (if it has them) at anytime.

Either way both are great machines.
I have a 84 420 and a 91 430. I use the 430 for mowing and 420 dedicated snow removal so I don't have to sway out implements.

I let my 430 warm up a few minutes when cold but it don't take no 30 minutes

 

[shadetree]

Of course you have no idea if your 140 is going to blow up the next time you use or not. But you have a better idea of how it has been treated then a 330 you have never seen before.

You have enough new stuff (house, yard, payments, etc) to adjust to for the foreseeable future that you can afford to wait a while on a different tractor.

 

[knottyrope]

the black on the exhaust, that is normal as when under load you will have some unburned fuel that comes out as smoke. there is a screw you can adjust to make more or less smoke but less smoke can mean less power if turned down too much

 

[bob_wallner]

Morgan, Certainly a couple things to ponder.

One thing that comes to mind is utilizing your 4 way blade. If that is 4 way (4 hose) hydraulics it will not operate on the 330 (unless you modify it to 318/332 dual hydraulics). You would be able to sell the angle cylinder and put a manual angle latch on the 54 blade.

Steering...the box is a lot heavier made and designed on the 330 than the 140. I do not think either steer all that hard, but that is a personal thing. What I am saying is that the 330 has a very stout box.

Fuel filling out back on a 330 (instead of under the hood)...on a everyday runner this is even a bigger plus.

KnottyRope is absolutely correct on fuel consumption. Try and figure out what you think you are paying in a year to fill gas cans and cut that right down the middle...they are that efficient.

Black on the exhaust...a little staining is probably normal. If it is puffing black under load that might be something to investigate.

Parts in general...lots to think about here. in some ways there a lot of 140's, so in theory lots of parts around. Not a whole lot of 330's. They only made them for 6 months in 1986. On the other hand a lot of the 330's components are shared through the others series, (steering box is same as a 316 Onan, hood and grill the same as a 316, 318, 332, 322) Rear pan the same as a 332 or 322. Tail lamp lense is unique. the engine itself is shared with the 332 and 655, and some parts of it with many other diesels.

Your 49 blower should bolt right up...but on a negative the proper shoot control bracket is unique to only the 330. You can use one from a 318 or 332 but the correct one is 330 only.

cold starting...if the glow plug system is working proper you will not have an issue, plugged in with a block heater...even less of an issue. I have never had any additional warm up time on a diesel over a gas...they should all run for a few minutes prior to rolling...if nothing else to warm the hydro.

If all the side screens and covers are intact on the 330...that is a plus as some (like the LH screen for the dash) is unique to the 330 only.

I have a 140, have had 2 others...and really like them. They are neat and very sturdy built machines. We currently have 4 330's, one we have a 49 blower on as a back up to a 430, one we mow with weekly here in town (about 1/2 acre), one we have a MC519 bagger and power flow on (for leaf duty here in town), and the final one is pretty much a garage queen of sorts (had it in a couple parades and shows)

Whichever way you decide you will not really go wrong. Good luck! Bob

 

[knottyrope]

the 330 holds about 2.75 gallons more than a 140 for fuel and you wont have to worry about running out of fuel after using it for 2 hours

 

[dd57chevy]

Knotty , sometimes us hicks from the Midwest use phrases that don't translate to type . What I meant was the diesels can really earn their keep if a guy is running them for a longer period each use .

Like I said (or meant) , was , a guy like me who mows a 1 1/2 city lot property probably couldn't justify the initial expense of the tractor or the inconvenience of keeping diesel on hand .

Sorry for the misunderstanding , I in NO WAY meant to bad-mouth diesels .

 

[hansonmo]

Love the input guys. Keep it coming.

Bob, the plan would be to add the second spool of hydraulics from auxhyd.com. It would have to wait until next year, but I would just do snow removal with the 318 this winter.

I love the 140 but since I bought the 318 I find myself wanting more power and torque out of the 140. I haven't found anything that can slow down my 318 yet. The smooth power from the Onan is amazing.

I had planned on waiting for a while to look to upgrade the 140, (to either a 318, 322, or 332), but I thought if I had the chance to trade it straight up for a 330 I'd be coming out alright.

 

[dd57chevy]

Morgan , you DID say you wanted opinions . With my gear drive 112 ,(same gas tank as the 140), I can mow for ABOUT 1.5 hrs before running out of gas . Here's where you (or other 140 owners) can contribute : With 2 more HP (roughly 15% increase) AND the hydrostatic trans , I would guess they are getting pretty low on fuel after an hour of service . MAYBE an hour & 15 min . I'm not 100% sure . But if you end up running out of gas every time you mow , that means pouring gasoline directly over a hot engine ......not advisable .

JMO

 

[charms]

When I used to do all my mowing with a 140, about 1 1/4 hrs was max before running out of gas. At the time my mowing usually took about 1 1/2 hrs. With my schedule, I was fine to mow for an hour, shut it down, let it cool off, and finish an hour or two later. Wouldn't suit everyone that way, but worked fine for me.

If my choice for weekly mowing was between a 140 and a 330, no contest. 330 uses less fuel, more comfortable, steers nicer, quieter, etc. I have a 140 with a loader (and power steering) that gets used a fair bit, but I don't use a 140 often for mowing.

 

[E Behm]

The only plus for the 140 in this situation, is it does provide more gut space between the seat and steering wheel. But I would go with the 330 for the fuel economy and the longevity. As far as the black smoke is concerned, Yanmars are sooty engines and the do blow some black smoke on start up and under load which is normal.

 

[1966JD110RF]

"Dave, since it will be used at the new house I'm not sure how long each use will be. Depending on the amount of snow it will probably take 45 minutes to 1 hr 15 min to clear the driveway. The lawn will be just under an acre so it will probably take an hour or so to mow."

I don't mow with my 140 (wish I could but our lawn is too small -- I use a pushmower). But I kept careful track of fuel usage last winter when I used the 140 quite a bit for snow removal, with a 48" 4-way blade.

Over the course of a very snowy winter, often with deep heavy wet snow to push, I averaged about 0.75 gph. So with a 1.75 gallon tank, that yields 2.3 hours of run time. If I overfill a bit, I can easily get 2.5 hours from a tank.

I have a 14 hp K321 and generally operate at around +/-3200 rpm. I have a digital tach with hour meter so it is easy to monitor engine speed and hours.

 

[bob_wallner]

On fuel consumption...you may want to check this thread...

http://www.wfmachines.com/discus/messages/96042/263061.html?1198183244

NOTE: FUEL CONSUMPTION WILL VARY WITH CUTTING CONDITIONS. 1/2 LOAD FIGURES ARE CLOSEST TO MOST CUSTOMER MOWING CONDITIONS.

GPH = GALLONS PER HOUR, LPH - LITERS PER HOUR)

TRACTOR 1/2 LOAD FULL LOAD

210 0.6 GPH 2.3 LPH 1.1 GPH 4.2 LPH
212 0.8 GPH 3.0 LPH 1.3 GPH 4.9 LPH
214 0.9 GPH 3.4 LPH 1.4 GPH 5.3 LPH
216 1.0 GPH 3.8 LPH 1.6 GPH 6.1 LPH

316 (S/N 285001- )0.9 GPH 3.4 LPH 1.4 GPH 5.3 LPH
318 0.9 GPH 3.4 LPH 1.4 GPH 5.3 LPH
322 0.9 GPH 3.4 LPH 1.5 GPH 5.7 LPH
325 0.75 GPH 2.8 LPH 1.25 GPH 4.5 LPH
330 0.4 GPH 1.5 LPH 0.8 GPH 3.0 LPH
332 0.4 GPH 1.5 LPH 0.8 GPH 3.0 LPH
345 0.8 GPH 3.0 LPH 1.3 GPH 4.9 LPH

420 1.0 GPH 3.8 LPH 2.0 GPH 7.6 LPH
430 0.4 GPH 1.5 LPH 0.9 GPH 3.4 LPH

425 0.94 GPH 3.6 LPH 1.57 GPH 5.9 LPH
445 0.98 GPH 3.7 LPH 1.64 GPH 6.2 LPH
455 0.79 GPH 3.0 LPH 1.32 GPH 5.0 LPH

I would assume the 214 to be very similar to a 140 in consumption...but JRP has recorded some pretty low fuel usage on that 140 listed above.

My own personal experience coincides very close to what the chart indicates above...a 330, 332, or 430 pretty much just sips the fuel compared to anything gas powered.

 

[1966JD110RF]

My numbers are probably closer to 1/2 load, since I am not running the PTO. Using a mower deck or snowblower I would expect consumption to increase significantly. And remember, I am only getting 14 hp for that .75 gph, whereas others might be getting 18 or 20+.

No question the diesels will trounce the gas engines on fuel consumption. I just wanted to report my experience because I'm sure Morgan can plow the snow from his driveway without needing to refuel a 140. He can probably mow his acre of lawn too, but I'm less certain of that because I don't have any mowing data to report.

 

[jake]

The things I would consider if it were me are:
1. The cost of fuel compared to gasoline. Were I live diesel will cost 20 to 25% more that gasoline.
2. Maintenance cost. Diesels generally cost more to service than gas powered equipment.
3. Up front costs. I’m assuming that the 330 would take a little change from your pocket.

 

[7dad34]

You will regret the day you sell your 140. You can buy all kinds of tractors to do whatever you want them to. You can't replace a 140. I never get the fuel consumption argument unless you use the 140 for making money. In that case , many have been burned up by trying to refuel with a hot engine.