1986 318 starts but quits
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robert
is this a B43G or a P 218 engine?
thank you. boomer
is this a B43G or a P 218 engine?
thank you. boomer
A little more info would be helpful, Robert.
Does it restart immediately or take a lot of cranking?
Does it quit after 5 minutes, whether under a load or not?
Does it run smoothly until it quits, or erratically?
Does it perhaps quit only when the PTO is engaged?
Does it restart immediately or take a lot of cranking?
Does it quit after 5 minutes, whether under a load or not?
Does it run smoothly until it quits, or erratically?
Does it perhaps quit only when the PTO is engaged?
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126 Posts
I have the same machine, I have spent so much time and money trying to troubleshoot the problem. will start fine runs for anywhere from 5 minutes to 10 then sputters and dies (wont restart) parts so far new carb new fuel lines new gas cap cleaned tank new fuel filter the list goes on and on, hope the good folks here can help both of us...
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Hello Paul
What year and engine is your 318 ? The quitting does not sound fuel related as you have all ready replaced everything to do with the fuel delivery system The earlier B-43-G engine had Point's Ignition and the condenser's are prone to failure. I eliminated my Condenser by Placing a David Kirk engines Point's saver module and it has not had any Ignition issues since. If you do have a Condensor I would suggest eliminating it here is a Link to David Kirk engines web page he offeres the Point's saver Moduel. If your Tractor has the P-218 Onan with Electronic Ignition it very well could be the Ignition Module is bad as they commonly quit once they get warm or hot. I hope this helps, Kurt
http://www.kirkengines.com/
What year and engine is your 318 ? The quitting does not sound fuel related as you have all ready replaced everything to do with the fuel delivery system The earlier B-43-G engine had Point's Ignition and the condenser's are prone to failure. I eliminated my Condenser by Placing a David Kirk engines Point's saver module and it has not had any Ignition issues since. If you do have a Condensor I would suggest eliminating it here is a Link to David Kirk engines web page he offeres the Point's saver Moduel. If your Tractor has the P-218 Onan with Electronic Ignition it very well could be the Ignition Module is bad as they commonly quit once they get warm or hot. I hope this helps, Kurt
http://www.kirkengines.com/
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I feel bad that i hi-jacked this thread (not my intention) the suggestions that you offered Kurt are valid for sure but if it was electrical then why will it restart with a shot of carb cleaner? btw i replaced the fuel pump as well, i have a see through fuel filter and fuel seems to be flowing i am totally stumped..
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Hello Paul
Well, You did not mention that it will restart on Carburetor cleaner. Now that sounds more like a fuel starvation issues. It is very common for these Onan's to get their carburetor idle jet tube Plugged. The top has to come off the carburetor to get to it. It is in about the 4-O-Clock Position looking from the front of the Tractor it will have a straight head screw slot in it. Unscrew it from the float bowl. Make certain all the side tube tiny Holes are clear hold it up to the light to see them as well as the Main hole from the screw driver slot to the bottom of the Idle Jet tube. While you have the top off of the carburetor check the float level height. See The attached Onan B-43-G service manual Link section seven of the service manual shows carburetor float level height and adjustments. I hope this helps, Kurt
http://rich.homeunix.com/gravely/engines/onan/Onan-B43-B48M-service.pdf
Well, You did not mention that it will restart on Carburetor cleaner. Now that sounds more like a fuel starvation issues. It is very common for these Onan's to get their carburetor idle jet tube Plugged. The top has to come off the carburetor to get to it. It is in about the 4-O-Clock Position looking from the front of the Tractor it will have a straight head screw slot in it. Unscrew it from the float bowl. Make certain all the side tube tiny Holes are clear hold it up to the light to see them as well as the Main hole from the screw driver slot to the bottom of the Idle Jet tube. While you have the top off of the carburetor check the float level height. See The attached Onan B-43-G service manual Link section seven of the service manual shows carburetor float level height and adjustments. I hope this helps, Kurt
http://rich.homeunix.com/gravely/engines/onan/Onan-B43-B48M-service.pdf
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with air cleaner off, run it for those 5 minutes and when it sputters hit it with a shot of ether and see if it still runs, if it does not run then it could be the condenser getting warm and shorting out. do you have a plug tester that sparks inline with the plug? that could help narrow it down too.
I also have see crud in the 90 inlet fitting on the carb prevent fuel flow too.
did you take apart the fuel pump? I found mine full of crud which would go down the line and plug up the pump later on while running
I also have see crud in the 90 inlet fitting on the carb prevent fuel flow too.
did you take apart the fuel pump? I found mine full of crud which would go down the line and plug up the pump later on while running
External Fuel filter and/or pickup tube or filter inside the gas tank. You would be surprised at the amount of Stuff inside the gas tank.
Oh yes and clean the carb as above. But if the tank is full of stuff that's what's going to end up in your carb... no matter how many times its cleaned.
Can condensers go bad, sure. I'm 70 plus and been working on engines for the past 60 years. I have replaced condensers as part of a tune up kit, but never to fix a not running problem. Even on all the John Deere's I have owned. I'm sure I will get my chance one of these days....
Oh yes and clean the carb as above. But if the tank is full of stuff that's what's going to end up in your carb... no matter how many times its cleaned.
Can condensers go bad, sure. I'm 70 plus and been working on engines for the past 60 years. I have replaced condensers as part of a tune up kit, but never to fix a not running problem. Even on all the John Deere's I have owned. I'm sure I will get my chance one of these days....
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Hello All
I flushed my Gas tank in my 318 when I did the restore to it and filtered the fuel that was in there as I had it about Three quarter's full when I took it down for the restore. You can use a Paint strainer I used an automotive Paint style strainer to filter mine it is fine enough that it catches all of the Trash while doing so yet you get to re-use the gasoline. The media in a Automotive paint cup strainer is very fine and will trap all of the dirt, debris and trash nicely so @ almost $4.00 a Gallon for gas there is no waste in the process. I hope this helps, Kurt
I flushed my Gas tank in my 318 when I did the restore to it and filtered the fuel that was in there as I had it about Three quarter's full when I took it down for the restore. You can use a Paint strainer I used an automotive Paint style strainer to filter mine it is fine enough that it catches all of the Trash while doing so yet you get to re-use the gasoline. The media in a Automotive paint cup strainer is very fine and will trap all of the dirt, debris and trash nicely so @ almost $4.00 a Gallon for gas there is no waste in the process. I hope this helps, Kurt
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my Issue hasn't gone away? to re-cap cleaned tank new fuel line new fuel pump new carb, cleaned the new carb runs "perfect" then bang sputters and dies i am tempted to get a electric fuel pump and give that a shot, but i have never been a fan of throwing parts at something, any more sugguestions and definatley appreciated.
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Paul,
Does your fuel tank have the pickup strainer with or without the check valve. Deere had a issue with fuel draining back so they made a revised pickup with a check inside it. Not sure why but they still sell both. I asked our service manager one day when we got two pickups for one customer and one had a check valve. He told me use the one with the check valve as it prevented starting issues with fuel drainback.
Michael
Does your fuel tank have the pickup strainer with or without the check valve. Deere had a issue with fuel draining back so they made a revised pickup with a check inside it. Not sure why but they still sell both. I asked our service manager one day when we got two pickups for one customer and one had a check valve. He told me use the one with the check valve as it prevented starting issues with fuel drainback.
Michael
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before you buy a pump, get a tank raised above the carb about 3 feet or so and let it gravity feed your carb also put the fuel line from the carb and place into a bottle while pinched off with a clamp
see what it does at the 5 minute mark by removing the clamp
see what it does at the 5 minute mark by removing the clamp
Try an alternate fuel source. Eliminate as much of the onboard fuel system as you can to isolate the problem from carb back or carb forward. A marine gas tank does well for this test. You can put the tank above the carb or use the primer bulb to feed the carb. Another trick is to use your propane torch and a rubber hose to fuel the engine. Slowly open the valve on the propane tank until the engine runs well at a reasonable speed with no help from the carb. II it runs past the 5 minute mark you are dealing with fuel. If it stops you are dealing with ignition failure. One more trick is to use a clamp on timing light on your spark plug wire, watch the flash and if the flash stops and the engine dies, you have electrical problems. If the flash continues while the engine is dying, you have fuel problems. I use the methods every day in my work. You must isolate the problem to know where to start chasing the solution.
Just my .02.
Hope you solve your problem soon.
Just my .02.
Hope you solve your problem soon.
Paul,
If you have a multimeter or tester, you can do as follows to figure out if it is the ignition.
Remove the grill and the right side shield.
Familiarize yourself with the negative side of the coil.
Have a ratchet and 9/16 socket with extension on the ready so that you can turn the crankshaft with it. Turn in clockwise.
Run the tractor until it dies, take the key out and get off.
Measure continuity between the negative on the coil and battery ground. Leave that sitting there.
Now turn the crankshaft clockwise and observe the tester.
If this part of the ignition is working fine then you should see it lose continuity and regain it when you turn it around.
If it doesn't and there is always continuity then your points are closed and / or there is a short between the wire from the coil and the points.
On one of mine the condensor was bad once it got hot. Relocated it to near the coil from inside the point housing, which made a big improvement.
On another one the heat shield had worn through the shield.
If you have a multimeter or tester, you can do as follows to figure out if it is the ignition.
Remove the grill and the right side shield.
Familiarize yourself with the negative side of the coil.
Have a ratchet and 9/16 socket with extension on the ready so that you can turn the crankshaft with it. Turn in clockwise.
Run the tractor until it dies, take the key out and get off.
Measure continuity between the negative on the coil and battery ground. Leave that sitting there.
Now turn the crankshaft clockwise and observe the tester.
If this part of the ignition is working fine then you should see it lose continuity and regain it when you turn it around.
If it doesn't and there is always continuity then your points are closed and / or there is a short between the wire from the coil and the points.
On one of mine the condensor was bad once it got hot. Relocated it to near the coil from inside the point housing, which made a big improvement.
On another one the heat shield had worn through the shield.
I had a similar issue the last couple days with my early 318. All of a sudden started sputtering, running sometimes and others not. Tore the carb apart twice and no luck. We were driving the garden tractors in a parade this afternoon, so I did a hail mary fix. I found an old condenser from another Onan and rigged it up on the firewall. Tractor fired right up and ran the entire parade route with no issues! Unfortunately, my near mint 322 died about 100 feet from the end of the parade route, but thats a dfferent thread...
Robert: Did any of these comments help? Since you started the thread, want to make sure the issue is resolved. If it is not, chime in w/ update, and people will try to assist.
Paul: How old are the wires on the motor? If original, try replacing them. Mine were shorting through the "boots" on the coil end. Depending what you are driving, you may be able to test this by pulling wires from your vehicle, at least long enough to see if it makes a difference. If it does, you can buy a set of auto wires from your local parts store, for less than JD will sell them. I think mine were for a 4cyl Ford, and it cured the problem.
Paul: How old are the wires on the motor? If original, try replacing them. Mine were shorting through the "boots" on the coil end. Depending what you are driving, you may be able to test this by pulling wires from your vehicle, at least long enough to see if it makes a difference. If it does, you can buy a set of auto wires from your local parts store, for less than JD will sell them. I think mine were for a 4cyl Ford, and it cured the problem.
Go to a local full service auto parts store. They sell individual plug wires with pre-installed spark plug boots in various lengths. I usually get copper core with silicone wire insulation. The ones on cars are ,<u>carbon core </u> and if flexed more than one or two times that core gets broken.
I use NGK resistor plugs in my 318. With resistor plugs you really don't need resistor wires on a lawn and garden tractor.
I use NGK resistor plugs in my 318. With resistor plugs you really don't need resistor wires on a lawn and garden tractor.
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