Hi guys, I got involved in working on an older guy's JD LA105. The starter will not turn it over past compression unless you first spin it backwards and then turn the key. I reset the valves to .3000, didn't help. It's an OHV Briggs 19.5 HP. single cyl. It's barely 2 yrs. old with 190 hrs. Nice shape yet but JD warranty limits repairs to 2 yrs./120 hrs. Nice, huh? Any help greatly appreciated! Fred
216 Govenor is wide open or idling... help!
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Joined
·
171 Posts
Repowering a 212 with a completely rebuilt 216 engine. This engine has everything new, cam, etc. Done by a NAPA machine shop that has rebuilt probably 5-6 of these K series for me in the past, never an issue. The is the only one I've ever had a new cam installed on.
This engine has sat since 2002, never installed or started.
Put it in last week, got it started, but I can't get any control over the governor, the slightest bump sends it wild. Spent a few hours moving the spring around, to no avail. Had a long time Deere mechanic here this morning, he's at a loss. We checked 3 times that the gov rod was as far left, when the tractor was at full throttle, tightened it. The linkage attached to that rod is brand new as well.
What could the machine shop have assembled wrong? I'm going to take them the tractor and show it to them Monday, unless someone on here knows what could be up with it!
The gov rod is leaking oil, don't understand that.
It also has no "fight" to it when you manually move the ball joint on the carb... my other Kohlers have resistance.
Sounds internal... and expensive...
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Randy
This engine has sat since 2002, never installed or started.
Put it in last week, got it started, but I can't get any control over the governor, the slightest bump sends it wild. Spent a few hours moving the spring around, to no avail. Had a long time Deere mechanic here this morning, he's at a loss. We checked 3 times that the gov rod was as far left, when the tractor was at full throttle, tightened it. The linkage attached to that rod is brand new as well.
What could the machine shop have assembled wrong? I'm going to take them the tractor and show it to them Monday, unless someone on here knows what could be up with it!
The gov rod is leaking oil, don't understand that.
It also has no "fight" to it when you manually move the ball joint on the carb... my other Kohlers have resistance.
Sounds internal... and expensive...
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Randy
Joined
·
3,364 Posts
just try resetting the governor first. It seems to me that when the engines get rolled around the governor gear must get hung up on the stub it rotates on and the governor needs to be reset after it been fired up.
Joined
·
171 Posts
How to reset it? Tried three times this morning with the gov shaft and linkage, no dice...
Joined
·
3,364 Posts
I like to remove 4 bolts holding the front grill/hood assembly to the frame and set it aside.
use 2 7/16" wrenches loosen the 1/4" clamp bolt on the governor arm. I clamp a small vice grip on the governor shaft, rotate the governor shaft counter clockwise, pull the governor arm with the linkage connected to the carburetor counter clockwise also, now tighten the bolt. Works great if ya have 8 fingers on your left hand.
![]()
use 2 7/16" wrenches loosen the 1/4" clamp bolt on the governor arm. I clamp a small vice grip on the governor shaft, rotate the governor shaft counter clockwise, pull the governor arm with the linkage connected to the carburetor counter clockwise also, now tighten the bolt. Works great if ya have 8 fingers on your left hand.
Joined
·
171 Posts
I've been working on these tractors for over 25 years, I'm familiar with setting up the govener. My question is, can something be installed improperly in the govener that is causing this? I've never been that deep into the engine.
Randy, take the gov. arm off and see if you can turn the shaft both ways with your fingers. Sometimes the welded tab on the shaft breaks off. The riveted type can become loose and move so the gear "plunger" doesn't touch. If the shaft was new, this shouldn't be the problem.
If you can move the shaft in and out a lot, the short spacer behind the bronze bushing (nut) might be missing. An older engine (1965 Kohler powered Case) I was into last year didn't have the spacer but there was a snap ring on the shaft, acting as a stop for the bushing to limit in-out shaft movement. The new replacement shaft has no ring groove and came with the spacer.
The gear could have broken or the flyweights came off. Especially if one of the spring pins was loose, worked it's way out, and hit the casting.
I don't know if it's possible to remove the cam gear cover and be able to see the gov. gear with the aid of a small mirror. Worth a try.
The bronze bushing is a slip fit with only a groove in the bore to stop oil from leaking out. A new one with a new shaft usually leaks a small film of oil except when the crankcase pressure is not venting properly. This would not keep the gov. from working however.
I suspect the engine will need to be torn down for some kind of replacement of the gov. parts, but hope you get lucky and find something else. Keep us posted.
p.s. Sometimes even new parts are defective.
tommyhawk
If you can move the shaft in and out a lot, the short spacer behind the bronze bushing (nut) might be missing. An older engine (1965 Kohler powered Case) I was into last year didn't have the spacer but there was a snap ring on the shaft, acting as a stop for the bushing to limit in-out shaft movement. The new replacement shaft has no ring groove and came with the spacer.
The gear could have broken or the flyweights came off. Especially if one of the spring pins was loose, worked it's way out, and hit the casting.
I don't know if it's possible to remove the cam gear cover and be able to see the gov. gear with the aid of a small mirror. Worth a try.
The bronze bushing is a slip fit with only a groove in the bore to stop oil from leaking out. A new one with a new shaft usually leaks a small film of oil except when the crankcase pressure is not venting properly. This would not keep the gov. from working however.
I suspect the engine will need to be torn down for some kind of replacement of the gov. parts, but hope you get lucky and find something else. Keep us posted.
p.s. Sometimes even new parts are defective.
tommyhawk
Joined
·
171 Posts
Tom,
Thanks so much, I'm afraid it's going to have to come back out... I have to wonder if the machine shop let a new or junior guy assemble it, and they broke something or didn't get it in place, etc.
I think the gov rod moves in and out too much, more than in my 212/214, which gives me a bad feeling. I can turn it with my fingers, and I hear the "tab" touching, so I doubt it's broken off, but...
It will sit there and idle pretty good, it's not perfectly in time yet, no use doing that now. But if you just touch the throttle, it's off to the races... If I'd let it, it sounds like it's detonate. Obviously I slow it down right away.
I was thinking it had to do with the spring position, but there is no resistance to pull it back down to reality.
I'll keep you all posted on it. I'm going to take it to the machine shop tomorrow, in the tractor, and let them listen to it. Hopefully he will be gentle with me on the repair, as it was their fault, but it's been 11 years.
Thinking back, he's done 2 Packard car engines for me, countless heads off Cat dozers, Ih farm tractors, 6 of these K series, the 123 out of my Farmall Super C, plus loads of press work.
Curious if I should get new rings put in since it has sat all this time. Guess he can be the judge of that.
Outside of the head gasket, I'm thinking everything can be reused?
Randy
Thanks so much, I'm afraid it's going to have to come back out... I have to wonder if the machine shop let a new or junior guy assemble it, and they broke something or didn't get it in place, etc.
I think the gov rod moves in and out too much, more than in my 212/214, which gives me a bad feeling. I can turn it with my fingers, and I hear the "tab" touching, so I doubt it's broken off, but...
It will sit there and idle pretty good, it's not perfectly in time yet, no use doing that now. But if you just touch the throttle, it's off to the races... If I'd let it, it sounds like it's detonate. Obviously I slow it down right away.
I was thinking it had to do with the spring position, but there is no resistance to pull it back down to reality.
I'll keep you all posted on it. I'm going to take it to the machine shop tomorrow, in the tractor, and let them listen to it. Hopefully he will be gentle with me on the repair, as it was their fault, but it's been 11 years.
Thinking back, he's done 2 Packard car engines for me, countless heads off Cat dozers, Ih farm tractors, 6 of these K series, the 123 out of my Farmall Super C, plus loads of press work.
Curious if I should get new rings put in since it has sat all this time. Guess he can be the judge of that.
Outside of the head gasket, I'm thinking everything can be reused?
Randy
Randy, it might be worth while to remove the bronze bushing #5 and see if perhaps the spacer #6 was left out or too short. If the shaft can move outward enough, it sure enough would not keep the tab aligned with the button on the gov. gear. #8 is a bearing pressed into the block for the rear of the shaft to rotate in.
This picture might help you visualize things a little better. It is the early style linkage for a 214, but the shaft, etc, should all look similar.
![]()
Shouldn't need new rings, but any gaskets removed will probably get damaged. Definitely a new head gasket.
tommyhawk
This picture might help you visualize things a little better. It is the early style linkage for a 214, but the shaft, etc, should all look similar.
Shouldn't need new rings, but any gaskets removed will probably get damaged. Definitely a new head gasket.
tommyhawk
Joined
·
1,893 Posts
When my last engine came back home from napa machine shop I had assembled parts onto the pre assembled block. I noticed while adjusting the governor arm to carb that I couldn't. I wasnt surprised. Everything I touch breaks even if new.
Took all the parts back off and hauled that block back for a new gov shaft. The tab broke off. If you LOOK at that wrong it will break.
Took all the parts back off and hauled that block back for a new gov shaft. The tab broke off. If you LOOK at that wrong it will break.
Joined
·
171 Posts
Could you guys take a look at it running while I work the throttle? See what you think. It's out of time, saving it from running off.
Here's the link to the Youtube video from earlier today. Randy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUC9BTn3bF8&feature=em-upload_owner
Here's the link to the Youtube video from earlier today. Randy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUC9BTn3bF8&feature=em-upload_owner
Joined
·
171 Posts
Thanks so much Tom! I keep meaning to go to JDparts and look at it, you saved me the trip! I've never had one leak at that bronze bushing, something isn't right.
Joined
·
171 Posts
Pulled the engine, took it back to the shop that did the machine work/assembly, governor was assembled incorrectly. It's back in there now, hoping it's done soon!
Randy, you might want to ask him to double check the crankcase breather for correct assembly, too. If the breather has a rubber hose connected to the air filter housing, make sure it is not kinked, rotten, or collapsing. Those are two of the things that can cause pressure buildup in the crankcase and make oil leaks.
A broken compression ring can too, I suppose.
tommyhawk
A broken compression ring can too, I suppose.
tommyhawk
Joined
·
171 Posts
For what its worth... The machine shop didnt install the governer... Would be why it wasnt working! I paid $40 for the governer, they did all the teardown and assembly for free... Thanks for all your help!
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Join the discussion
