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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Did some brake work, replaced some fuel lines and changed the oil and filter. Now I turn the key and nothing (I can hear and feel the fuel pump). Checked the safety circuit at the key switch and I'm getting continuity (take it out of neutral (disengage the switch there and continuity goes away), so I think I have the right safety circuit). I'm getting 12.6 v at the battery.
Anybody have a next step to check, please.
Thanks Scott.
serial number M00316X 290854.
 

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Scott,

There is more to the series safety circuit that just the neutral switch -- refer to this wiring excerpt. Your tractor is not new enough to have the parking brake switch, but the other parts should be there. If you do not have a rear PTO switch, there will be a jumper in the X5 connector. Since you have voltage as far as the neutral switch, look for a loose or unplugged purple wire on the starter solenoid. The other possibility is a bad connection on the key switch (these switches themselves do wear out, and the connectors on the back can get overheated/corroded/etc.)



Chuck
 

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Scott,

Your last post had no pictures -- but here is a way to test the key switch lifted straight from the TM1590 service manual...I will send you some larger excerpts that are too large here for posting.



Chuck
 

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OK Scott,

Have you verified that all the ground connections are clean and sound?

It is possible though unlikely that the solenoid has failed and picked just the moment that you serviced your tractor to do it. Have you tried a heavy jumper (starter cable size) of 12 volts to the starter terminal itself? If you have a P-series engine that terminal is on the solenoid mounted to the starter adjacent to the other heavy stud on the solenoid with the battery + cable. If your tractor is early enough to have the B-series engine the solenoid is on the firewall, but the starter is still down on the right lower side of the engine -- not the simplest access.

Chuck
 

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Scott,

You can also try jumping the tab connector on the solenoid where the purple wire goes to +12 volts and see if the starter motor cranks it over...that would indicate a good solenoid. If the starter runs only when you bypass the solenoid with a heavy gauge wire (or short the two large studs together with a screwdriver shaft, etc.) then the solenoid is failing. If the starter does not turn even when directly supplied power with the heavy gauge jumper, then a brush is hung up or the starter windings are open...

The starter is pretty deep in the frame rails, but here is a poor picture of its location, sorry I could not find a better illustration:


...well I found a less dark one but it is a bit blurry -- oh well.


Chuck
 

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Scott,

Wow! These pictures give us much more to discuss... Did you do the repower yourself, or did a prior owner do it?

The serial number of your 316 shows it to be a 1984 model year unit, which would originally have had the B-series engine with the separate solenoid on the firewall. Your frame appears to be cut out for the presently shown Performer 20XLS (as was fitted in Wheel Horse tractors and some others ...) The P-series engines that were fitted in later 316 and 318 tractors were a slightly different version with a starter that had the solenoid hanging down as the illustrations in my posts above -- and cutting a clearance rectangle the floor of the frame to clear those solenoids is much less structurally intrusive than cutting into the side rail.

I cannot tell exactly how your tractor is wired presently, but the starter in the picture above is definitely of the "solenoid-shift" variety...so that solenoid must be energized to engage the pinion gear with the flywheel ring gear, as well as to provide the high current path to power the starter motor itself.

I guess it is possible that a 'creative' approach was taken by the prior owner that connected the solenoids in SERIES -- but if that were the case the switched high current lead from the firewall mounted solenoid that would have gone directly to the B-series starter must now go to the P-series' solenoid terminal "B" and to work at all the "A" terminal of that starter-mounted solenoid would have to be connected permanently to that B post as well. All VERY ODD -- and if I were trying to fix this unnecessary series solenoid configuration, I would convert everything to use only the solenoid on the starter, and remove the separate solenoid from the wiring altogether. There are lots of careful steps needed to do that however...maybe in another post.

There are other subtle issues in swapping a P-series engine into a B-series tractor, like a different length drive-shaft (but maybe the conversion that was done on your 316 included the re-use of the B-series flywheel...)

What more can you tell us about the history of your tractor and its conversion to the Performer 20 engine???

...by the way, I presume that the separate solenoid shown in your first picture above was taken off the firewall for picture taking purposes, right? Here is a component locator for a 318 that also applies generically to your 316:


Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Well Chuck its been one surprise after another with this tractor (I know I paid to much for it). I work with the guy that I bought the tractor from. I asked him today who put the replacement engine in and he said hid dad did. Didn't even notice the frame mod until you said something. And I'm a long way away from figuring out how to fix this. The engine does run well, that is when its running. Next couple of days I'm going to get a better look at the wiring. Kinda thought the same thing about getting rid of the old solenoid and keeping the one on the starter itself. To answer your question, no that is how I found the solenoid (and that other thing), just hanging there. Believe I was seeing red when I bought this. Even one of the lower brackets for connecting the front blade is broke, and those things are solid. Oh well, still think it has potential.
Scott.
 

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Scott,

The solenoid and the 25 amp circuit breaker ("that other thing") should be mounted on the pedestal. It appears that the pedestal side sheet metal is not present on that side of the tractor in your picture...maybe some wider shots will help us give you some better guidance on what to do to bring it back to a more stock configuration. Here is how those components were mounted to the inside of that pedestal sheet metal...


...another view:


In some of my posts above I think I said "firewall" when I meant to say the pedestal wall...sorry for any confusion that may have caused.

Chuck
 

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Scott,

Yes, you should be good to go if you take out the extra separate solenoid and wire the tractor per the diagram for the SN362984 and up 316s...

Since your starter motor has the solenoid sticking out to the side -- be sure the high current studs/wire terminals/cables clear the frame and sheet metal panels well. You don't want vibration to rub through some paint and have things start arcing.


Chuck
 
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