[andrewgoingmailcom]

Hello all! Grab a drink, prepare to be entertained, and please help!
EDIT: See attached pic of page from manual that I attempted to follow.

I attempted to service my 317 over the weekend and it appears I may have done more harm than good. First of all thank you to:

@monkeybs2001yahoo.com @Mike_U @gvthnks @stevev @chuckv @mjydrafter

I was able to blow out several pounds of dust, oil, and debris from the flywheel/sheet metal duct system for my tractor. I don't know how to service a carburator so I started with this and an oil change. I also opted for a transmission oil fluid and filter change and I believe I created another problem.

Very quickly: is it even possible that the engine does not have an oil filter? I cannot find it (short of removing all the sheet metal coverings. I feel dumb even asking. See the pic with my engine information.

Secondly and more importantly, I drained the transmission oil by removing the bottom cooling tube. I replaced the filter (filled it 1/2 full w/transmission oil per the manual), and began to fill. I was never able to observe the oil level through the sight tube for some reason. The transmission would not even take the first gallon oil before it was full (manual calls for ~5quarts). So I removed some of the fluid and replaced the cap and cooling tube.

Not long into mowing I opened the hood to make sure that an oil cap that I had replaced was holding. When I slammed the hood shut the tractor just started spewing white smoke everywhere. I drove toward the garage and it seemed to be operating normally and the smoke dissipated.

I drove and reversed a few times and noticed big spots of oil on my driveway. Transmission oil blew everywhere when I went to remove the fill cap. I removed a bunch of oil. I am blind to how much oil is in the system at this point. The tractor operated okay after that but has power issues as I increase the load. Is it possible that the oil level in the transmission is still so high that the power is affected? Is it possible that the oil leak got somewhere that affected the power?

There does not appear to be an active transmission oil leak so I am thinking that the leaks must be from a pressure relief valve. Is that possible?

Thank you for reading this far! Have a great night

 

[Mike_U]

Edited to correct. Thanks for the corrections below Charms.

How much fluid came out vs how much did you refill it with?
You might have overfilled the transmission and fluid leaked out on top of the transmission.

There should be a clear plastic tube on the left rear of the tractor. Refill the transmission until you see fluid raise halfway up that clear sight glass plastic tube. If you did not see fluid raise up that tube, check to see if the tube is plugged or maybe the tubing is too old and clouded to be able to see the fluid?

 

[charms]

The spec # 24301 shown in the tag is the improved Series 2 Kohler engine. It did not have an oil filter. Kohler did make an optional oil filter adapter for this Series 2 Kohler engine, but few 317s had it.

A few inches above and forward of the sight glass area, is supposed to be a small fuel filter with a vent hole. If that is not there or plugged, it's possible that it would not show correct level.

 

[mjydrafter]

The 317 is kind of in between the 140 and the 318's. So it's the 140 rear end, but has some of the features of the 318. (Like the sight glass, and better drivehshaft). On the 140, you remove the cooling tube to drain the rear. I'm not super familiar with how it (317) fills, but it doesn't look like it has the dumb fill hose/elbow up to the pedestal, like the 318.

The sight glass should be in the slot in the "frame closer" (the big flat piece that the hitch bolts too, on the left side). I would assume if over filled it would leak. But, if you leave the pressure relief valve held down (like you wanted to push a non-running tractor, they will leak like a sieve when you start it).

Those hoses can get old and brittle, did something get bumped and maybe cracked, but didn't break completely?

 

[andrewgoingmailcom]

Edited to correct. Thanks for the corrections below Charms.

How much fluid came out vs how much did you refill it with?
You might have overfilled the transmission and fluid leaked out on top of the transmission.

There should be a clear plastic tube on the left rear of the tractor. Refill the transmission until you see fluid raise halfway up that clear sight glass plastic tube. If you did not see fluid raise up that tube, check to see if the tube is plugged or maybe the tubing is too old and clouded to be able to see the fluid?

 

[andrewgoingmailcom]

The amount that I drained is a mystery. However, the system was full to the top of the fill tube by the time I added the first gallon of fluid. The sight tube never showed fluid

One peculiar detail is that the fluid I added is clear. The fluid I drained was red. There was enough red fluid remaining in the system that the resulting fluid was pink.

 

[Mike_U]

Andrew, I’m guessing you just added too much fluid and your sight gauge isn’t registering correctly.
The previous owner probably used transmission fluid, hence the red color. When you drained the system, not all of the lines emptied completely and the system likely did not need as much fluid as a completely dry system.

The top of the fill tube on the 317 is about 3-5” higher than the center of the sight gauge if I recall correctly. That’s why it spilled out. See if you can clean the vent on the sight glass as was mentioned previously and once it’s working, you can lower the fluid level in the transmission to the correct level.

 

[DEERE317]

Something good for clear hydro fluid: John Deere Hydraulic Oil Dye - MT3668

 

[andrewgoingmailcom]

Something good for clear hydro fluid: John Deere Hydraulic Oil Dye - MT3668

Thank you!

 

[andrewgoingmailcom]

I went back at this tonight. I drained as much fluid as I could get from the transmission. Here is a pic of the drain point. This appears to be the lowest point in the transmission. I pulled the vent tube (sight tube) and ensured it wasn't plugged. I reamed the connection points too but I never found a smoking gun. I left the tube off at it's uppermost point during refilling. I was able to get just about 3.25 quarts back into the transmission. I didn't pull the filter this time so I am gussing there is around 3.5 quarts of fluid in the system unless there is some other place where I should have been able to drain additional fluid. Strange because the manual calls for 5-quarts.

I also found that I had overfilled the engine oil as well when I did that service. Is engine oil over filled a possible cause of lagging when I add load to the system - e.g. mower engaged and full open transmission up a hill?

Thank you all for your help @mjydrafter @Mike_U @charms

 

[army]

Mr Charms knows that of which he speaks . My Series II 317 had the adapter but no filter.

The spec # 24301 shown in the tag is the improved Series 2 Kohler engine. It did not have an oil filter. Kohler did make an optional oil filter adapter for this Series 2 Kohler engine, but few 317s had it.

A few inches above and forward of the sight glass area, is supposed to be a small fuel filter with a vent hole. If that is not there or plugged, it's possible that it would not show correct level.

 

[Mike_U]

Sounds like you are making good progress and understanding your system. Are you seeing the fluid level in the sight glass now? If not, I cannot explain why you would not be seeing fluid raise in your sight glass unless the tubing and glass are old and yellowed and not transparent enough to see through.
Your hydraulic system has fluid in the hydraulic cylinder for lifting the mower deck and miscellaneous hoses and lines including the hydraulic lines that feed the hydraulic couplers on the front of the tractor for operating a snow plow or snow thrower. Those places most likely do not fully drain when you drain the transmission and if they do drain a little, they would not automatically fill when you top off the transmission. Once you start the tractor and cycle all the hydraulics to work the air out of the system, any areas that did drain should refill. That's why you have to recheck fluid levels after running the machine and cycling hydraulics to purge air and force fluid into those areas.

Drain the engine oil to the proper level before you run it again. How far over full did you fill it? Did the engine smoke or pump oil out of a crankcase breather tube?

 

[andrewgoingmailcom]

Mr Charms knows that of which he speaks . My Series II 317 had the adapter but no filter.
View attachment 284957

I believe mine has the adapter as well.

 

[DEERE317]

I think it’s just a blank off plate, but that is where an adapter would mount.
Mine has it also.

 

[andrewgoingmailcom]

Sounds like you are making good progress and understanding your system. Are you seeing the fluid level in the sight glass now? If not, I cannot explain why you would not be seeing fluid raise in your sight glass unless the tubing and glass are old and yellowed and not transparent enough to see through.
Your hydraulic system has fluid in the hydraulic cylinder for lifting the mower deck and miscellaneous hoses and lines including the hydraulic lines that feed the hydraulic couplers on the front of the tractor for operating a snow plow or snow thrower. Those places most likely do not fully drain when you drain the transmission and if they do drain a little, they would not automatically fill when you top off the transmission. Once you start the tractor and cycle all the hydraulics to work the air out of the system, any areas that did drain should refill. That's why you have to recheck fluid levels after running the machine and cycling hydraulics to purge air and force fluid into those areas.

Drain the engine oil to the proper level before you run it again. How far over full did you fill it? Did the engine smoke or pump oil out of a crankcase breather tube?

Thank you @Mike_U for the encouraging words. I wish I was responding

To get my transmission oil level correct, I just pulled my sight tube at the top in order to allow it to breath as I filled the fluid. It took a bright light behind the tube for me to be able to see it. Fluid levels were adjusted and I took her out on her maiden voyage.
I'm not sure how much I overfilled my engine oil, but apparently it was enough to blow a seal. My frustrations continue...The engine started pouring oil out of the front during her maiden operation. I was hoping it was from the breather - BUT - the oil is coming from the frunt center. I believe the oil is coming from behind the electrict pto clutch. I am planning on removing the electromagnetic pto clutch to verify - IS THERE A TRICK TO REMOVING IT? Or is it just a matter of removing the four corner nuts and disconnecting the electrical plug connection. I was worried about the springs making it more complicated but I feel like I'm not missing anything.

If the leak is indeed coming from the front output shaft seal: AM I GOING TO HAVE TO REMOVE THE ENGINE TO REPLACE? I don't know if I am prepared for such a job, but there's nobody that is going to do if for me.
@Mike_U @charms @mjydrafter @DEERE317 @army

 

[stevev]

I've changed my pto before, but can't remember exactly how I did it. But for starters I think that bolt #12 has to be removed. I think maybe one of those other bolts holds the whole assembly from turning . Also that wire has to be disconnected before removing the pto. I'd spray the shaft as best you can, and hopefully the whole assembly slides off the shaft. Sorry that's all I can remember . Maybe someone else will chime in with better instructions?

 

[charms]

Yes, bolt 12 needs to be removed, then 10 and 11 should come off easy. Remove the four nuts, and then 5 should come off together with 7 and 8.
It should be possible to replace the front output shaft seal without removing the engine from the tractor.

 

[army]

Yah I meant the engine had an adapter port but that isn't what I said. Good catch tank guy .

I think it’s just a blank off plate, but that is where an adapter would mount.
Mine has it also.

 

[tommyhawk]

Charms has the PTO removal covered. The ref picture shows the Warner brand clutch. OP may have an Ogura clutch which has a different shape on the coil mounting plate, shaped like a trapezoid rather than a rectangle. Neither one can be removed without disassembly as described.

Without removing the engine, the front plate can be removed to replace the seal. Get a new gasket for the front plate. The bore that the seal gets pressed into has no shoulder, same diameter all the way through. Don't be surprised to find the seal way back in the bore. I don't know what happens to them, but they become loose over time.
The new seal is supposed to be recessed into the bore to allow the nibs on the back of the coil plate to center the coil in the bore to align with the crankshaft. JD manual shows a special tool to set the seal in the proper place but does not give a dimension. It seems like it is 3/32" (.093) or .100". A Kohler manual should have that figure, so don't just trust my memory. I haven't replaced mine for a few years, but it is due to leak again any time on my Series I engine. lol

You will want to follow the correct remounting procedure for the PTO to make sure it is centered and the air gap is set correctly. It is in the service manual if you have one and there are probably several threads on the subject in the search files.

The 317 frame did not have enough clearance to allow the direct mounted oil filter with the Series II engine. It is my understanding that a kit was available to remote mount a filter with an adapter on the block and hoses to the filter base mounted somewhere above. Never have seen one.

tommyhawk

 

[andrewgoingmailcom]

Charms has the PTO removal covered. The ref picture shows the Warner brand clutch. OP may have an Ogura clutch which has a different shape on the coil mounting plate, shaped like a trapezoid rather than a rectangle. Neither one can be removed without disassembly as described.

Without removing the engine, the front plate can be removed to replace the seal. Get a new gasket for the front plate. The bore that the seal gets pressed into has no shoulder, same diameter all the way through. Don't be surprised to find the seal way back in the bore. I don't know what happens to them, but they become loose over time.
The new seal is supposed to be recessed into the bore to allow the nibs on the back of the coil plate to center the coil in the bore to align with the crankshaft. JD manual shows a special tool to set the seal in the proper place but does not give a dimension. It seems like it is 3/32" (.093) or .100". A Kohler manual should have that figure, so don't just trust my memory. I haven't replaced mine for a few years, but it is due to leak again any time on my Series I engine. lol

You will want to follow the correct remounting procedure for the PTO to make sure it is centered and the air gap is set correctly. It is in the service manual if you have one and there are probably several threads on the subject in the search files.

The 317 frame did not have enough clearance to allow the direct mounted oil filter with the Series II engine. It is my understanding that a kit was available to remote mount a filter with an adapter on the block and hoses to the filter base mounted somewhere above. Never have seen one.

tommyhawk

Thank you for taking the time to respond! I am going to give this a try. Seems like it can't be too hard with the proper resources. What could go wrong right?