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JD 1986 318
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Good morning all, I have decided to replace my Onan B43G with a Briggs Vanguard 23hp...Is there any body that has some good tips on install?...looks pretty straight forward...1 question though, do I need to reuse the starter solenoid from B engine?...guess I can sell the Onan, it still runs...Thanks in advance
 

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If you’ve not bought the the Vanguard yet I’d check out SEW (Small Engine Warehouse) as they sell a full kit to do the repower.
As for the solenoid I have no clue.
 

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The B&S V-16 I put in the Mall rat still needed the solenoid.
 

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JD 1986 318
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
If you’ve not bought the the Vanguard yet I’d check out SEW (Small Engine Warehouse) as they sell a full kit to do the repower.
As for the solenoid I have no clue.
That is where i will get it...yes everything I need except solenoid
 

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Good morning all, I have decided to replace my Onan B43G with a Briggs Vanguard 23hp...Is there any body that has some good tips on install?...looks pretty straight forward...1 question though, do I need to reuse the starter solenoid from B engine?...guess I can sell the Onan, it still runs...Thanks in advance
Yes you have to reuse the solenoid!
The installation is very straight forward, I had a little trouble with the throttle cable and the muffler pipe did not fit correctly but I made fit by filing off a little bit of the opening of side cover, not a big deal.
I was able to sell my Onan which was still running too.
Good luck with yours!

Henry.
 

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Can a solenoid be put somewhere else besides the starter?...where did u get the solenoid?...thanks
I believe it was the original to the tractor. Any solenoid should work. They should all be separate form the starter itself.
 

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JD 1986 318
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes you have to reuse the solenoid!
The installation is very straight forward, I had a little trouble with the throttle cable and the muffler pipe did not fit correctly but I made fit by filing off a little bit of the opening of side cover, not a big deal.
I was able to sell my Onan which was still running too.
Good luck with yours!

Henry.
At least the solenoid will be easier to get at then on the b43g...Henry is it easy to bolt on the solenoid?May I ask what u got for the running Onan B43G?...Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I believe it was the original to the tractor. Any solenoid should work. They should all be separate form the starter itself.
That is what i am wondering, on my B43G the solenoid is bolted to the starter I believe
 

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That is what i am wondering, on my B43G the solenoid is bolted to the starter I believe
Do Vanguards have solenoids bolted to the starter? If so that would solve the problem. @thecause17 may know the answer to you question as he recently installed a Vanguard into a 316.
 

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I have done 2 Vanguard 18 and neither had the solenoid on the starter. One of the Onan had the solenoid on the starter. Since I used to own a 1969 Ford pickup I went to the auto parts store and asked for a solenoid for a 69 Ford. Worked well. Even the bolt holes lined up with the early mounting location on the side panel (holes were already there). Later in the auto parts store I saw a solenoid in the small gas engine section that looks identical.
Both were SEW kits and the throttle cable lever does not line up with the mounting bolts on the JD dash. No biggie, easy to make fit.
Also the mounting bracket for the Vanguard is not put together correctly. As it comes it will not fit the engine mounting holes in the floor of the JD. Easy enough to figure out how to put it together right. I used spacers under this mounting bracket to raise the engine to clear the exhaust pipe for the hole in the side panel. If you get a firewall insulation kit from Mr Lang (on this forum) and tell him you are using a Vanguard he will mark lines on the insulation to cut out the hole in the correct location for the engine shroud to make a good seal.
Hope this helps.
 

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JD 1986 318
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have done 2 Vanguard 18 and neither had the solenoid on the starter. One of the Onan had the solenoid on the starter. Since I used to own a 1969 Ford pickup I went to the auto parts store and asked for a solenoid for a 69 Ford. Worked well. Even the bolt holes lined up with the early mounting location on the side panel (holes were already there). Later in the auto parts store I saw a solenoid in the small gas engine section that looks identical.
Both were SEW kits and the throttle cable lever does not line up with the mounting bolts on the JD dash. No biggie, easy to make fit.
Also the mounting bracket for the Vanguard is not put together correctly. As it comes it will not fit the engine mounting holes in the floor of the JD. Easy enough to figure out how to put it together right. I used spacers under this mounting bracket to raise the engine to clear the exhaust pipe for the hole in the side panel. If you get a firewall insulation kit from Mr Lang (on this forum) and tell him you are using a Vanguard he will mark lines on the insulation to cut out the hole in the correct location for the engine shroud to make a good seal.
Hope this helps.
Thanks, I will just have to figure where to mount the solenoid and how to wire it up...my 86 318's solenoid is on the starter...do i need a two post, therr post or 4 post solenoid? thanks AT
 

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23 HP is gonna make that 318 feel like a hotrod. You'll love it. Lots of power even for a 420 or 400. The solenoid was on the starter on one of my 23 HP Vanguards but I believe the previous owner did it himself. Definitely not a factory looking job. It's still on there for now, till I tear the 420 apart next winter anyway. It'll be relocated at that time. All I did for now was add a bracket that bolts to the solenoid and goes over to the flywheel cover to steady it up. Whoever put the VG in it also used the original solenoid in it's factory location as a jumper connection for the starter cable(s). Looks like he didn't have a cable long enough. That's ok in a pinch but not a long term fix.
266791
 
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At least the solenoid will be easier to get at then on the b43g...Henry is it easy to bolt on the solenoid?May I ask what u got for the running Onan B43G?...Thanks
The solenoid on mine is attached to the right side of tractor, bellow the circuit breaker. Need to take battery out to get to it.
 

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23 HP is gonna make that 318 feel like a hotrod. You'll love it. Lots of power even for a 420 or 400. The solenoid was on the starter on one of my 23 HP Vanguards but I believe the previous owner did it himself. Definitely not a factory looking job. It's still on there for now, till I tear the 420 apart next winter anyway. It'll be relocated at that time. All I did for now was add a bracket that bolts to the solenoid and goes over to the flywheel cover to steady it up. Whoever put the VG in it also used the original solenoid in it's factory location as a jumper connection for the starter cable(s). Looks like he didn't have a cable long enough. That's ok in a pinch but not a long term fix.
View attachment 266791
Army. That may not be exactly how I would mount the solenoid but its certainly not functionally bad. Keeping the starter cables between the solenoid and starter as short as possible is always good. Whomever did this install made sure the solenoid had a good ground for sure. At least to the engine. (the strap) However if the engine isn't grounded to the battery properly, it's not doing much good. 318's with B43G's were known for starter issues and there is an improvement kit available to solve the problem.

For the benefit of dwitch53, the B43G solenoids (like this) mounted on the starter performed two functions, closing the contacts and pulling in the starter gear to the ring gear.
266795

Hence it required a lot of current for the relatively large relay coil. And since all the current to pull that large coil in passed thru all of the machine safeties the voltage drop became (with age) to much to pull the solenoid in effectively. All you would hear was a click. (another not so swell John Deere engineering effort) The starter improvement kit solved that by installing a smaller relay close to the starter solenoid that more of less bypassed the safeties but still allowed them to function. The purple safety/starter circuit only had to pull in the much smaller relay supplied with the improvement kit.

So, any engine starter that does not have a solenoid mounter starter shouldn't need anything other than a standard automobile starter solenoid. (Like that in your photo) Just connect the purple safety circuit to the positive side of the solenoid and ground the negative side. Some of these relays are internally grounded, others are not. Yours appears to be internally grounded as I can't see a wire connected to the negative post. If it were me, I would ground it anyway. The larger positive cables are simply connected across the large terminal posts. As shown in your photo.

I have no idea how the various kits handle this but I always bond the engine to the frame by installing a large ground cable between them. From the negative post, to the frame, and the frame to the engine. You cannot have too many grounds. Its a small investment that pays dividends down the road.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Army. That may not be exactly how I would mount the solenoid but its certainly not functionally bad. Keeping the starter cables between the solenoid and starter as short as possible is always good. Whomever did this install made sure the solenoid had a good ground for sure. At least to the engine. (the strap) However if the engine isn't grounded to the battery properly, it's not doing much good. 318's with B43G's were known for starter issues and there is an improvement kit available to solve the problem.

For the benefit of dwitch53, the B43G solenoids (like this) mounted on the starter performed two functions, closing the contacts and pulling in the starter gear to the ring gear.
View attachment 266795
Hence it required a lot of current for the relatively large relay coil. And since all the current to pull that large coil in passed thru all of the machine safeties the voltage drop became (with age) to much to pull the solenoid in effectively. All you would hear was a click. (another not so swell John Deere engineering effort) The starter improvement kit solved that by installing a smaller relay close to the starter solenoid that more of less bypassed the safeties but still allowed them to function. The purple safety/starter circuit only had to pull in the much smaller relay supplied with the improvement kit.

So, any engine starter that does not have a solenoid mounter starter shouldn't need anything other than a standard automobile starter solenoid. (Like that in your photo) Just connect the purple safety circuit to the positive side of the solenoid and ground the negative side. Some of these relays are internally grounded, others are not. Yours appears to be internally grounded as I can't see a wire connected to the negative post. If it were me, I would ground it anyway. The larger positive cables are simply connected across the large terminal posts. As shown in your photo.

I have no idea how the various kits handle this but I always bond the engine to the frame by installing a large ground cable between them. From the negative post, to the frame, and the frame to the engine. You cannot have too many grounds. Its a small investment that pays dividends down the road.
JetJoe, I have to apologize TO ALL...I went and pulled the battery and tray and sure enough the solenoid is there under the tray...so sorry...That should make my conversion a whole lot simpler...just run the wire from B43G to the Briggs starter and there ya go
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Well now since I know where the solenoid is with help from all of you guys and Thanks much is there any good tips or tricks on install of the 23hp Briggs on my 1986 JD 318...Thanks
 
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