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318 Deere with a 20hp Onan, 46" deck, Powerflow bagger system, and Snow Blower.
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone tried this? Maybe add a 3 spool valve from a 420 and a cylinder?

My Reasons...
I recently picked up a MCS system. It's bulky and doesn't have the brackets or PTO (got it CHEAP)
(like this: https://www.shoppok.com/louisville/...00--Shepherdsville-,50,208409,image_large.htm )

I'd like to convert it to 3 point because it's heavy and awkward.
Then get the real Rear PTO (2000) vs the pulley MCS rear PTO
I would build a PTO shaft to the MCS.
Much easier on and off with a quick hitch, and a PTO shaft vs the way it's built now.
And... considering I have none of the needed brackets to mount the MCS, it would save fabricating the brackets that I don't have.

BUT then there are issues..... The rock shaft controls the 3 point...and the mower deck. I can't exactly mow with the deck up, and I won't be able to run the MCS with the 3 point all the way down.

SO.... that brings me to divorcing the Deck lift and the 3 point. Has anyone done it or tried it?
Really it seems simple in theory, but it isn't something that came up in my searching, so either no one cares enough to do it, it's to hard to do, or there is another way around it. (lock the 3 point up?)

Thoughts? Am I making a mountain out of a molehill?
 

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I did what you are proposing to my 400. I fender mounted a 2 spool valve and plumbed it ahead of the onboard 3 spool valve and used a separate cylinder to lift the deck. Then used the deck rock shaft cylinder for the 3PH. I used the additional spool for the 3PH so all 3 onboard SCV circuits were available for the loader. The dual fender controls are for deck lift and 3PH. The 2 spoil valve came out of a Toro sand trap groomer.

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318 Deere with a 20hp Onan, 46" deck, Powerflow bagger system, and Snow Blower.
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's awesome! What cylinder is that for the deck lift?

I do have an extra H2 valve block and handle set. I haven't looked to see if I could maybe rig that set of handles on the opposite side. I do like what you did with the through the fender though! That looks super clean!
 

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The engineering and execution that grandpa Jay shows us continues to amaze. That 400 should end up in a Deere museum as an example of the "perfect" GT...😎

Dood, you may be over thinking this. A 3 point/shaft driven MCS has been successfully done before without MCS height or sway as an issue. Since you can set the lift pins wherever you want, you can control the range of movement. Ideally you'd want to be able to use the 3 pt arm adjusters to get the shaft as straight as possible at operating height. You might also want to consider converting the MCS to a powerpack-type solution once you price rear pto and series 6 driveline parts! 😂

Lastly I will say that with a little planning and a cheap wooden dolly, I can Mount and unmount my MCS in 10 minutes without breaking a sweat or my back and never needing to be on the ground.
 

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If I remember, there was a lock out valve available to do just what you want. It was an option I believe.
 

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I agree with Minisub. I converted my MCS with Powerpack to 3pt so I can use it on my compact utility tractor. My 3pt lift arms go up and down with the mower deck similar to a garden tractor 3 pt but that issue can be solved. You have to do a mock up before you bolt or weld to make sure when the mower is at mowing height, the MCS is still high enough off the ground.
The MCS has slightly more upward travel than the deck so I had to improvise and make the tube that connects the powerpack to the deck boot telescoping so that it can “stretch” when the MCS raises higher than the deck.

As for garden tractor mounting, the MCS comes with attaching points. Mounting direct to the tractor is a simpler solution than fabricating a 3 pt conversion and mounting via 3 pt hitch. The lower brackets that bolt to the tractor to hold the MCS are the same brackets used to mount 3pt lift arms and can be easily fabricated. If your tractor already has a 3 pt hitch, you already have these brackets.

The top brackets that hold the top of the MCS to the tractor bolt on the tractor in place of the normal rockshaft mounting plates. They can be purchased used on eBay.
 

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318 Deere with a 20hp Onan, 46" deck, Powerflow bagger system, and Snow Blower.
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The engineering and execution that grandpa Jay shows us continues to amaze. That 400 should end up in a Deere museum as an example of the "perfect" GT...😎

Dood, you may be over thinking this. A 3 point/shaft driven MCS has been successfully done before without MCS height or sway as an issue. Since you can set the lift pins wherever you want, you can control the range of movement. Ideally you'd want to be able to use the 3 pt arm adjusters to get the shaft as straight as possible at operating height. You might also want to consider converting the MCS to a powerpack-type solution once you price rear pto and series 6 driveline parts! 😂

Lastly I will say that with a little planning and a cheap wooden dolly, I can Mount and unmount my MCS in 10 minutes without breaking a sweat or my back and never needing to be on the ground.
Well... That's a possibility too. Adding the distance away from the tractor by adding the 3 point, would give me the space to add another motor.

Then comes the question... what HP motor will I need to run the MCS fan system?
 

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318 Deere with a 20hp Onan, 46" deck, Powerflow bagger system, and Snow Blower.
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Maybe a silly question.... Instead of another say 5hp motor, what if a guy ran a second hydraulic pump (ran off the rear PTO), and a hydraulic motor to drive the MCS? Am I looking to open another can of worms there? Can I get the needed RPM out of a hydraulic motor?
 

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The Deere MCS I have shipped from the factory with a model FA210d Power Pack. I believe it is a Kawasaki gasoline engine rated 5.2HP. It runs flawlessly and I've never had to worry about robbing power from the tractor engine to run the vacuum.
Download the Operators Manual for the MCS and you should see the option for the engine and how it is mounted. The engine sits off to the right side of the MCS frame on 2 approx 1/2" diameter dowel posts that allow it to swivel slightly as the suction tube flexes with the mower deck going up and down. I have never used the PTO version of the MCS so I cannot comment on its operation vs. the separate engine.
 

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Yes, worms. As Mike points out,, the power pack option takes a big load off the primary engine. A hydraulic solution could be made to work at significant cost and would rob even more power from the primary engine. A 5hp Honda clone is like $100. I killed my p218 running an MCS and deck in tall grass pulling hills. Wish I had ditched the pto drive...
 

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318 Deere with a 20hp Onan, 46" deck, Powerflow bagger system, and Snow Blower.
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Wow, that must have been one heck of a hill and some nasty grass! With the 18hp that I had in the tractor, I would be thinking twice. The motor that is in it now, the 20hp, has WAY more power. My entire yard is hills. Before I would have to feather the hydro speed, especially if the grass is long. Now, I could run flat out, IF the grass would fully get cut. And that's with the 6 bushel power-flow bagger on it.

Looking at my MCS, I'd have to get creative to mount a secondary motor, and it would be RIGHT behind my head. I'll have to do some digging to find that manual, as I haven't come across it yet. IF you know where to find it, I'd be very thankful if you could send me in the right direction.

The reasons I was thinking Hydro pump and motor, I could set it up to run wide open and spin 1850RPM (what I found cheapish hydraulic motors to run for RPM) but then bring it down to 540rpm and be able to use small cat 1 stuff on the 3 point. That would also give me a "power beyond" type situation. I was thinking it could run a Spreader or a rear hydraulic dump box, 3 point wood splitter, etc.
Maybe down the road if I was to find a front end loader, I'd already have a secondary hydraulic system that I could run that off, instead of the 3gpm factory hydro.

Just kind of a mind dump in the way I was thinking about this I guess. I'm happy to hear your thoughts on my crazy ideas.
 

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Search for Deere OMM77689 for the Tilt Dump Operation guide. On one of the early pages you will see a photo of the engine and blower mounted low off the right side of the MCS frame. The parts manual should also show you how the engine and blower are mounted. They are mounted differently than the PTO driven blower.
 

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318 Deere with a 20hp Onan, 46" deck, Powerflow bagger system, and Snow Blower.
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Search for Deere OMM77689 for the Tilt Dump Operation guide. On one of the early pages you will see a photo of the engine and blower mounted low off the right side of the MCS frame. The parts manual should also show you how the engine and blower are mounted. They are mounted differently than the PTO driven blower.
on the correct MCS, going through the parts film I don't see one with a secondary motor from this actual MCS unit.

Google has not helped me with the manual either. I tried with the number you listed and without. I did find the parts film though, so that has been a help! Thanks!

this is the unit I have
 

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318 Deere with a 20hp Onan, 46" deck, Powerflow bagger system, and Snow Blower.
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

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Your Tilt-n-Dump is exactly like mine, which I have mounted on a 430 during Fall. It is about 20 minutes to mount it the OEM way. I considered a three point mount but decided that it would mount it too far back from the original position, and other than being faster to mount, wouldn't confer any benefits. I already had a PTO and 3pt linkage. I only ended up using the upper brackets because the bottom MCS arms bolt right into the 3pt lower brackets when I take the 3pt arms off. If you mount it on the 3pt, it will be much more of a stretch to reach the speed lever and more especially the unload lever which takes a bit of a yank to get it over center. If you do go the 3pt route, let us know how it works out. I bought the Operator's Manual hardcopy but I use the parts catalog that is online
 

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318 Deere with a 20hp Onan, 46" deck, Powerflow bagger system, and Snow Blower.
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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Well I actually took some time to mess with this beast this weekend.

As a couple of you noted, lets not reinvent the wheel. It appears that it should be pretty easy to throw a 6.5hp Predator ($160) motor and a coupler on rather than adding the rear PTO for one piece of equipment. The other 2000rpm PTO stuff is way to hard to find to be worth the expense. And.... if I do change it a 3 point piece, it would be even easier. Which, I think I'll do, as my hope is that in roughly 5 years I'd pick up a 1025r and this would be able to be used on that too. Seems like a win/win.

That being said.... has anyone taken the time to figure out a way to make a 540pto for these 318 tractors? Locally there are a few PTO gensets for pretty reasonable (15kw for $800), and I stumbled onto a 48" brush hog with 2 rear casters... but again it's 540rpm. I'm sure both of those would be maxing out the capability of my 318, but they wouldn't be used a ton. The genset only when power goes out in a storm, and the brush hog 2 times a year.... maybe. Although I do see some broadcast spreaders and other "lighter" load stuff that would be nice too.... This is probably a Far fetched thought...but as I said... has it been done?
 

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That being said.... has anyone taken the time to figure out a way to make a 540pto for these 318 tractors?
Some one years ago did convert the 2000 rpm to a 540. But parts were hard to find and I think he bought the last parts.i have seen on here where someone used sprockets and chain to make one (homemade)
 

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318 Deere with a 20hp Onan, 46" deck, Powerflow bagger system, and Snow Blower.
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Some one years ago did convert the 2000 rpm to a 540. But parts were hard to find and I think he bought the last parts.i have seen on here where someone used sprockets and chain to make one (homemade)
That would take some work! I wonder if there is a reduction gearbox out there already made? Then it would just be getting the 540pto drive portion tied in.
 

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While it could be
That would take some work! I wonder if there is a reduction gearbox out there already made? Then it would just be getting the 540pto drive portion tied in.
There are gear reduction made that are close to the 3450 engine speed to 540 PTO speed which is a 6.38 to 1 ratio. The problem is the size and getting them mounted to the rear of the tractor and not having them stick too far behind the tractor.
 
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