Snowblowed today for 3 hours, tractor ran fine. Stopped to fill fuel tank. Went to start to do more snow cleanup, nothing. No cranking, no lights, no dash lights when ignition switch turned to on position. I checked the battery which is only a year old with a meter, reads 12.7 volts. Both fuses look good and I had cleaned and polished the fuse contacts two months ago. Temp is 18 degrees and any snow that melted from engine heat when it was running instantly froze. Got 318 and 49 snowblower towed into barn. It's too cold to check all the ground connections right now. What would keep battery voltage from getting to the dash lights when ignition switch is turned to on--bad ignition switch?
318 suddenly no electrical
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I will have to wait till it's warmer to check voltage at fuse connectors or switches, just not enough room to get my hands behind the dash with gloves on. Is it possible the breaker below the battery tray and mounted on the side panel could have gone bad?
Jerry,
My 318 had a burned contact on the connector that plugged into the ignition switch. It was the wire that supplies power to the two fuses in the run position. Moisture doesn't help the problem at all. You can unplug the 3 amp fuse and measure the voltage on the switch side of the fuse. If bad you know that either the switch or the contact is bad. If the connector is not welded itself to the switch, you may be able to unplug the connector and look at the contacts.
Larry
My 318 had a burned contact on the connector that plugged into the ignition switch. It was the wire that supplies power to the two fuses in the run position. Moisture doesn't help the problem at all. You can unplug the 3 amp fuse and measure the voltage on the switch side of the fuse. If bad you know that either the switch or the contact is bad. If the connector is not welded itself to the switch, you may be able to unplug the connector and look at the contacts.
Larry
To measure voltage at the fuse connector contacts or switch contacts do I touch my meter's black probe to any body ground?
I keep thinking the heavy wet snow that froze instantly when the tractor was off while refueling is a factor here. Could be just coincidence but it's been fine till this deep-freeze.
I keep thinking the heavy wet snow that froze instantly when the tractor was off while refueling is a factor here. Could be just coincidence but it's been fine till this deep-freeze.
Jerry,
I usually use an alligator clip to hold the black meter lead on the ground post(negative) post of the battery. Verify that the battery terminals are tight. Also verify that the ground cable from the battery is tight to the engine. Do you have a wiring diagram for the 318?
Larry
I usually use an alligator clip to hold the black meter lead on the ground post(negative) post of the battery. Verify that the battery terminals are tight. Also verify that the ground cable from the battery is tight to the engine. Do you have a wiring diagram for the 318?
Larry
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Hello Jerry
Jump the starting safety switch's to see if that allow's it to start, Moisture may be preventing one to work correctly. Regards, Kurt
Jump the starting safety switch's to see if that allow's it to start, Moisture may be preventing one to work correctly. Regards, Kurt
It's still too cold to test voltage at connectors--16 degrees. Shouldn't I still have power to the dash lamps and headlights when key is turned to run position even if safety switches were not working. I have nothing, as if the battery were disconnected. Battery reads 12.7 volts and connections are tight. I will clean the posts and clamps when it warms some.
Hi Jerry, as you said you have to pull the battery out of the way. After pulling that you could check continuity of circuit breaker with an ohm meter assuming you have access to one. If not I would just rig up a test light using a flashlight battery and a lamp. If you do decide to use the 318 battery as a source, please use a fused lead just in case it contacts something while poking around.
The tech manual says to sit battery on air cleaner cover and re-route the negative terminal to reach... and then check for voltage on each side of circuit breaker. It is pretty heavy and unwieldy, my choice would be to get it out of your way.
One thing to remember is the circuit breakers are pretty reliable... but the terminals are very unreliable. There is a good chance that the crummy push on connectors at the circuit breaker are your problem. You probably want to look those over come spring assuming you get patched together for now.
But back to where we are now, do you have the tubular fuses or tab type? First measure for 12V on each side of the 20A fuse. I would guess you will not have 12V (key in run position)
The next step (assuming above) if you can get to it would be to check if you have power to the key switch from the circuit breaker. The manual looks like this is the upper right terminal if you were sitting on the snowblower looking back at seat.
Jerry, I guess after writing all this, if I had snow piling up, I would try wriggling my hand down to the circuit breaker area and see if I could wiggle those terminals and maybe you get lucky and just have a loose connection there. Not sure whether they are reachable without moving battery but I would try.
Don't sweat any interlock safety switches for now as if you don't have any dash lights, you have a more fundamental problem
The tech manual says to sit battery on air cleaner cover and re-route the negative terminal to reach... and then check for voltage on each side of circuit breaker. It is pretty heavy and unwieldy, my choice would be to get it out of your way.
One thing to remember is the circuit breakers are pretty reliable... but the terminals are very unreliable. There is a good chance that the crummy push on connectors at the circuit breaker are your problem. You probably want to look those over come spring assuming you get patched together for now.
But back to where we are now, do you have the tubular fuses or tab type? First measure for 12V on each side of the 20A fuse. I would guess you will not have 12V (key in run position)
The next step (assuming above) if you can get to it would be to check if you have power to the key switch from the circuit breaker. The manual looks like this is the upper right terminal if you were sitting on the snowblower looking back at seat.
Jerry, I guess after writing all this, if I had snow piling up, I would try wriggling my hand down to the circuit breaker area and see if I could wiggle those terminals and maybe you get lucky and just have a loose connection there. Not sure whether they are reachable without moving battery but I would try.
Don't sweat any interlock safety switches for now as if you don't have any dash lights, you have a more fundamental problem
Thanks Dennis,
I do have the old glass tubular fuses. The fuse connectors and fuse ends I shined up with emory paper 2 months ago and still looked good yesterday.
Yes, I have to completely remove the battery and battery tray to get at the circuit breaker and wires. No room to get hand between TDCM and battery tray.
If I have 12v at the fuse connector wouldn't that mean the circuit breaker and it's post connections are ok. And no voltage at fuse connector would indicate power not getting past circuit breaker or key switch?
I do have the old glass tubular fuses. The fuse connectors and fuse ends I shined up with emory paper 2 months ago and still looked good yesterday.
Yes, I have to completely remove the battery and battery tray to get at the circuit breaker and wires. No room to get hand between TDCM and battery tray.
If I have 12v at the fuse connector wouldn't that mean the circuit breaker and it's post connections are ok. And no voltage at fuse connector would indicate power not getting past circuit breaker or key switch?
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With my experience on my 89 316 the key switches In these electrical systems are the weak link. When I brought my used new to me JD home and power washed everything for clean up, it had the same characteristic that you are describing, after probing around with meter and chatting with my dad that has multiple deere L&G tractors he said quit wasting time and buy a switch. Sure enough he was correct and have never had another issue.
I agree with Jim, I had a thread on here not too long ago that our 316 quit while driving it. Wouldn't restart nor anything light up, just like yours is doing. Rolled it back into the shed and checked all electrical components from the battery to the switch. Couldn't find anything wrong with it or the switch so I put it back together and then it ran. My guess is the switch had a time when it just didn't want to work. All is good now and have it put away for the winter. Hope yours is just as simple!
Jerry,
If you have a battery jumper box that has short cables on it with clamps, I use this instead of trying to attach the battery sitting on top of the air cleaner. My box has a switch that I use to control the power to the jumper cables. With the tray removed, you will have full access to the circuit breaker. Do you have a B43G or P218 engine? With the B43G the circuit breaker is next to the solenoid.
Larry
If you have a battery jumper box that has short cables on it with clamps, I use this instead of trying to attach the battery sitting on top of the air cleaner. My box has a switch that I use to control the power to the jumper cables. With the tray removed, you will have full access to the circuit breaker. Do you have a B43G or P218 engine? With the B43G the circuit breaker is next to the solenoid.
Larry
Set up a heater in the barn this afternoon and checked battery connections and grounds. Then checked the 25 amp circuit breaker connections. All were clean and tight. Then I pulled out the key switch and immediately saw the switch was badly corroded/rusted and also saw that the smaller plug on the switch at terminal A was semi melted. The connector was burnt and semi welded to the switch contact. I picked up a new key switch at dealer and installed it. The wire connector at terminal A needs to be replaced sometime, but seems to make good enough contact that now I have electrical power when key switch is on. All lights work and engine starts up fine. HOWEVER
Something bizarre has changed with the front PTO. When sitting on the seat and engaging the front PTO, the engine will die. When NOT on the seat and engine running, I can engage the PTO and the engine and PTO continue to operate. That's not suppose to happen. Very confusing. So, even though I now have electrical and can start engine, I still can't snowblow because the engine dies when I sit on the tractor and engage the PTO.
Something bizarre has changed with the front PTO. When sitting on the seat and engaging the front PTO, the engine will die. When NOT on the seat and engine running, I can engage the PTO and the engine and PTO continue to operate. That's not suppose to happen. Very confusing. So, even though I now have electrical and can start engine, I still can't snowblow because the engine dies when I sit on the tractor and engage the PTO.
I will jumper the seat switch and see what happens. The seat safety switch should not kill the engine though, it should only disengage the PTO clutch. And very strange that the PTO will operate with no weight on the seat safety switch.
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