[JDF/ SwampFox]

Chuck,
As I stated before, Alternator puts out 23.85 ac volts to 49.67 ac volts.

That is putting the probes between one Alternator lead and the Battery pin on the Regulator. (Or instead of Regulator pin, grounded to the block) I would think that is the most accurate way of getting that measurement.
Separating the Alternator wires and using the clamp hoop in AC Amp mode gives me 11.15 to 11.45 ....wot. That's with it connected to the regulator all wires connected including RED battery wire.
DC amps going from regulator to starter/battery is 6+
Who knows, maybe the regulator I bought is bad or even miswired?

 

[chuckv]

Jerry,

Your new meter is a "true RMS" capable one -- this means that the AC readings are based on a "root-mean-square" waveform equivalent so even if the sine wave we expect out of the alternator is distorted, your meter adjusts for that distortion.

Given that, your 11.2 amps of AC current at the AC output range you list means that up to 500+ watts are being transferred from the alternator to the regulator. But, the 3.6 amps of DC flowing in the red wire to the battery represents only a little under 50 watts getting delivered to the battery load. The remaining 450 watts being consumed somewhere in the regulator itself would account for some substantial heating. Even if a portion of the AC watts is getting spent somewhere in the alternator, it makes sense that both are getting hot...

Chuck

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

Chuck,
So now what?
My new alternator is shipped and should be here Monday..
Jus wait and install new alternator along with new regulator and test it?
I know my battery is good, Ive tested and charged it well.
Jerry

 

[chuckv]

Jerry,

Yes I would start with the new parts all working together. Do inspect the old alternator for any obvious signs of damage/failure when you remove it. You have the means to renew all the wiring connections with well crimped connections so do that of course...

Observe things closely at start up and let us know what you find.

Chuck

 

[chuckv]

I just re-read your post #61 above, and need to say that the alternator AC output is measured from one alternator lead to the other -- and should not include any DC terminals on the regulator! The AC winding of the alternator should NOT have any path to the tractor's ground or its battery. This may be the root cause of your difficulties...

Chuck

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

Chuck,
Ok Boss, I should have everything I need by Aug 3rd. Hopefully Aug 4th I'll have it wired up and find out what it does. I look forward to devoted time to fix this Aug 4th. After doing inventory I found I didn't have proper wire or the insulated ends for this job but.... thanks to Amazon I will have..
I'll let ya know when it happens.
Fingers crossed...
Jerry.

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

For some odd reason, I received my new alternator today. I installed it, attached it to the brand new regulator except for the red battery wire. The alternator stayed cool and so did the regulator. I shut it off and attached the red wire and just like before with the old parts, everything got hot. I shut it off before it got too hot.
I have since taken the fender pan and side panels off. I will be searching for a bare wire somewhere in the system.
That's all for now....

 

[fuddyduddy]

Is the regulator mounted as it should be or getting hot just wire connected?

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

Is the regulator mounted as it should be or getting hot just wire connected?


For now it is just hanging from the wires with a grounding wire running from the mounting bolt to the negative post on battery. It's definitely grounded.

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

I'm going to back up and start with buying the new and improved John Deere Regulator with heat sensing control. I'm going to buy a Relay to install into the green voltage sensing wire. I'm going to go over every connection I can within the wire harness along with the ground connections. I am going to check the fusible link within the harness. I am going to buy a new key switch for the tractor. When all this is done, if it isn't fixed, I will part it out and be done with it. I don't need this machine, I have a new 1025r JD tractor that is so much nicer.... I thought the pto clutch was the problem, it's not. I don't care if the pto never works again although it still does. I just want my 322 to operate like it has for 10 years without catching fire.... I'm done after another $300 or so...

 

[chuckv]

Jerry,

Gary is right that the regulator should be directly bolted to the tractor frame for a good ground connection -- not a little test lead but a bolt. Be sure that all paint is cleared enough to make a solid connection -- I recommend using an external star washer to ensure good metallic bite into both the frame and the regulator housing...The black wire in the harness bundle with the large ring terminal can go under this bolt as well - but it does not provide primary ground to the regulator module.

Also, the engine in the 322 is rubber mounted, so there must be a braided ground strap across one of the mounts, or some equivalent place, to connect engine ground to chassis ground directly with plenty of current carrying capability. If you recently replaced the mounts or adjusted their heights to better center the fan blade in the shroud, perhaps this ground got disturbed/misplaced. In the factory configuration of the 322, the battery ground goes to the engine, so this high current connection to the frame is essential...

Chuck

 

[fuddyduddy]

The regulator has a heat sink on it also and mounting it properly as Chuck said not only gives a much better ground but also increases thermal effectiveness of it (heat transfer to mounting frame). Thermal runaway.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

The regulator has a heat sink on it also and mounting it properly as Chuck said not only gives a much better ground but also increases thermal effectiveness of it (heat transfer to mounting frame). Thermal runaway.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk

Ok, I'll work on that today.
If I put a Star washer between the regulator and the frame, I'm right back to the regulator not being flush on the frame and very little contact between the regulator and frame.

 

[chuckv]

Jerry,

Did you find an intact braided ground strap as shown in the wiring diagram from the engine to the frame?

Chuck

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

Jerry,

Did you find an intact braided ground strap as shown in the wiring diagram from the engine to the frame?

Chuck

Yes, I saw that a few days ago. It's definitely there. I've checked continuity for ground everywhere.

 

[chuckv]

Jerry, good to hear that your engine to frame grounding is intact. This means that proper grounding of the regulator to the frame rail should result in proper operation. The black wire in the harness with the large ring also needs to go to the frame ground at the regulator.

For others following this thread...here is an illustration from the TM1591 showing the ground strap across the rubber engine mount isolator.

Chuck

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

My ground strap is on the opposite side, from Frame to engine block...right at the fuel pump.
I never have had one like that picture shows.
I'm going to remove it to clean the attachment areas.

 

[chuckv]

System ground vary quite a bit from model to model and year to year. Here are some typical illustrations for just the 322 and 332 from the TM1591. Expect other variations as well...

Chuck

 

[fuddyduddy]

Ok, I'll work on that today.
If I put a Star washer between the regulator and the frame, I'm right back to the regulator not being flush on the frame and very little contact between the regulator and frame.

The star washer can be against bolt head and regulator heat sink metal frame. If you have or use heat sink compound back of regulator to frame that also helps heat transfer. Auto parts stores should have it, it comes with HEI ignition modules.

Sent from my SM-S205DL using Tapatalk

 

[chuckv]

Jerry,

If you use a star washer under the bolt head to ensure a ground connection from the bolt to the regulator body, you also need to use another star washer under the nut to couple the bolt to the tractor frame. As I recall the holes in the frame are not threaded...

A single star washer between the regulator housing and the tractor frame will do a great job of grounding. As you note, it will raise the regulator a bit off full contact with the frame, but the heat dissipation to the frame is not that critical for this application, and the regulator fins are sufficient to handle the heat. This is not the case with the much smaller and nearly fin-less regulators used on the Onan engines.

You can add thermal grease if you choose...it won't hurt anything but it will attract dirt to stick to the exposed surfaces. Thermal grease/heat sink compound reduces the resistance to heat flow from one part to the other. There are some thermal "pads" made from a specific silicon that also provide this function without attracting dirt to cling.

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Chuck