I have a 332 that i put a new battery in two years ago and tests ok like 12.5 volts with battery tester. The battery light started to stay on so i put a reman alternator and belt on it. The battery light is still staying on and with it running the battery tester doesnt show any charging. Any ideas or direction to go would be appreicated.
332 battery light stays on
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Going through the same issues. Got my 332 at the Deere doctor, will let you know what he finds. I changed the voltage regulater and it started charging too much with the battery light on.
Here too - but with my 330. Checked alternator - showed good output (13.4 volts), checked battery (good) and checked all connections for corrosion - none found. Bought three new aftermarket voltage regulators from Crank-n-Charge off e-bay and returned all three. None worked properly and did not solved the problem, so don't waste your time or money there. So - my 330 is charging - battery stays at 12.57V, but the %&*@ light just stays on. Went to local Generator Shop - they checked everything but could not figure out why light was staying on. So, I just removed the light bulb. Now I know that does not solve the "problem", but at least I don't worry about the light being on.
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Mark and Jim,
What is the voltage at the battery terminals when the engine is running? Please note that the charging lamp merely indicates that there is insufficient AMPERAGE to charge the battery coming out of the regulator -- that is why the wiring diagram labels this indicator as the "battery discharge lamp". You may have a very large amperage drain elsewhere on the tractor (glow plugs staying on all the time instead of timing out in the first few seconds, for instance...)
You should have at least 13.5 volts on the battery when it is fully charged and the engine is running.
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...if this is hard to read due to size limits of images posted here, open this PDF file:
charge circuit operation.pdf (7.6 k)
Is the 10 amp fuse good?
Chuck
What is the voltage at the battery terminals when the engine is running? Please note that the charging lamp merely indicates that there is insufficient AMPERAGE to charge the battery coming out of the regulator -- that is why the wiring diagram labels this indicator as the "battery discharge lamp". You may have a very large amperage drain elsewhere on the tractor (glow plugs staying on all the time instead of timing out in the first few seconds, for instance...)
You should have at least 13.5 volts on the battery when it is fully charged and the engine is running.
...if this is hard to read due to size limits of images posted here, open this PDF file:
charge circuit operation.pdf (7.6 k) Is the 10 amp fuse good?
Chuck
Took my 330 to my local John Deere Dealership - they said they did not have time to "chase" down an electrical problem - said they would have to completely remove the existing wiring harness and install a new one.
Decided not to go that route - but I've still not found the problem.
I just went out to the garage and checked the voltage while running fully throttle - 12.5 v.
I'll be honest - I'm lost at what to do next.
Decided not to go that route - but I've still not found the problem.
I just went out to the garage and checked the voltage while running fully throttle - 12.5 v.
I'll be honest - I'm lost at what to do next.
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Mark,
If that 12.5 volts is measured at the battery terminals, what do you measure at red wire in connector X16 at the voltage regulator?
Do you have the TM1591 manual so you can go through the diagnostic steps there?
In part I can understand the dealer not wanting to wade into a butchered harness that might be a prior owner's nightmare (we have seen/discussed many an extreme example on this forum...) but it does seem like most service technicians nowadays do not understand the theory of why a machine and its electrical systems work in concert as they do -- so they just change parts.
Please note that the regulator must be grounded to the system (the black wire that does not pass through connector X16 in the diagram above.) As I recall it is a ring lug that goes under one of the regulator's mounting bolts -- but check for paint or corrosion causing a poor ground.
Let us know what you find...
Chuck
If that 12.5 volts is measured at the battery terminals, what do you measure at red wire in connector X16 at the voltage regulator?
Do you have the TM1591 manual so you can go through the diagnostic steps there?
In part I can understand the dealer not wanting to wade into a butchered harness that might be a prior owner's nightmare (we have seen/discussed many an extreme example on this forum...) but it does seem like most service technicians nowadays do not understand the theory of why a machine and its electrical systems work in concert as they do -- so they just change parts.
Please note that the regulator must be grounded to the system (the black wire that does not pass through connector X16 in the diagram above.) As I recall it is a ring lug that goes under one of the regulator's mounting bolts -- but check for paint or corrosion causing a poor ground.
Let us know what you find...
Chuck
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Jim,
The output of the alternator should be AC -- most meters require a mode change to measure it if you have been measuring DC up to that point. Typically an alternator would be putting out around 30+ VAC when measured directly across the winding...
The output of the regulator that is being used to charge the battery is the #950 RED wire as shown in the wiring diagram above. When measured with a voltmeter set to show DC, the voltage there should match that measured a the positive battery post -- if not there is something not connected securely at one end of this wire.
One way to check for a bad ground in this circuit area is to measure if there is any DC voltage between the negative terminal of the battery itself and the ground wire at the regulator...it should be zero volts. If it is not, suspect the #120 black wire or the harness splice.
It is VERY unlikely that your glow plugs are staying on, but here is the wiring diagram of that part of the circuitry...and yes, the glow plug control module is on the firewall.
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Chuck
The output of the alternator should be AC -- most meters require a mode change to measure it if you have been measuring DC up to that point. Typically an alternator would be putting out around 30+ VAC when measured directly across the winding...
The output of the regulator that is being used to charge the battery is the #950 RED wire as shown in the wiring diagram above. When measured with a voltmeter set to show DC, the voltage there should match that measured a the positive battery post -- if not there is something not connected securely at one end of this wire.
One way to check for a bad ground in this circuit area is to measure if there is any DC voltage between the negative terminal of the battery itself and the ground wire at the regulator...it should be zero volts. If it is not, suspect the #120 black wire or the harness splice.
It is VERY unlikely that your glow plugs are staying on, but here is the wiring diagram of that part of the circuitry...and yes, the glow plug control module is on the firewall.
Chuck
Chuck- I had to mow again today and haven't had time till now to check things again. Started fine but clutch for blades wouldn't engage until it ran for about five minutes. After more DC meter readings this is what i have found. One wire from alternator reads 0 the other while running reads like 10.5 at the regulator. The red wire going from the regulator to starter reads about 11.4 which is what the battery was reading after mowing. I would say its not charging. so is it because the new reman alternator is junk or because the regulator is not working? Thanks for the info. Jim
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Jim,
In my post 7507 above the description of the alternator function states that the two wire output of the alternator assembly is AC -- therefore you cannot measure it relative to system ground or with a DC setting on your voltmeter.
First, unplug and inspect the wiring on the alternator pigtail as seen as connector #6 in this illustration:
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It is known that the high currents from the alternator when charging a dead battery or when connected to a defective regulator can cause this pigtail connector to fail. Also look for overheated or broken wires in this area.
If the connector is disconnected from the harness, you should then be able to measure an AC voltage of the order of 30 to 50 volts coming from the alternator when the engine is running. What you find is going to help us divide this problem such that we can find the root cause. Most likely the root cause is a bad connection or broken/burned through wire...
Let us know what you find. IF you cannot make an AC measurement with your meter, post here and we can discuss how to help.
Chuck
In my post 7507 above the description of the alternator function states that the two wire output of the alternator assembly is AC -- therefore you cannot measure it relative to system ground or with a DC setting on your voltmeter.
First, unplug and inspect the wiring on the alternator pigtail as seen as connector #6 in this illustration:
It is known that the high currents from the alternator when charging a dead battery or when connected to a defective regulator can cause this pigtail connector to fail. Also look for overheated or broken wires in this area.
If the connector is disconnected from the harness, you should then be able to measure an AC voltage of the order of 30 to 50 volts coming from the alternator when the engine is running. What you find is going to help us divide this problem such that we can find the root cause. Most likely the root cause is a bad connection or broken/burned through wire...
Let us know what you find. IF you cannot make an AC measurement with your meter, post here and we can discuss how to help.
Chuck
I had to replace my regulator this winter and last week I noticed the connector Chuck mentioned was burnt so I replaced it with some wire crimps.
The basics are to measure your battery voltage (meter on dc and probes across the posts) without the key on or engine running and you should see around 12v unless your battery is getting run down. Next you run the engine at mid throttle and you should see around 13.5v dc. If you still read battery voltage then something in the charging system is not working right. You can go to your car and perform the same measurements and you should see what I mean.
As Chuck says, my troubleshooting methods at the time were also to measure my alternator by unplugging at connector 6, set my meter on AC volts and put both probes into the plug on the alternator side of connector. I read 33 v ac on mine and so I got a new regulator and everything is good.
I suspect my connector burnt after replacing the regulator because of a bad connection when reconnecting after doing my ac voltage test as I would of noticed the burnt wire insulation prior to disconnecting.
The basics are to measure your battery voltage (meter on dc and probes across the posts) without the key on or engine running and you should see around 12v unless your battery is getting run down. Next you run the engine at mid throttle and you should see around 13.5v dc. If you still read battery voltage then something in the charging system is not working right. You can go to your car and perform the same measurements and you should see what I mean.
As Chuck says, my troubleshooting methods at the time were also to measure my alternator by unplugging at connector 6, set my meter on AC volts and put both probes into the plug on the alternator side of connector. I read 33 v ac on mine and so I got a new regulator and everything is good.
I suspect my connector burnt after replacing the regulator because of a bad connection when reconnecting after doing my ac voltage test as I would of noticed the burnt wire insulation prior to disconnecting.
I just replaced the regulator with a new deere one. The plug was burnt where i suspect the hot wire is from the alternator. It even discolored the back of the old regulator. I used insulated connectors since the plug was burnt and cracked. The battery is reading around 12.05 with it running at mid throttle When i switched meter to AC and probed connector from alternator i only had 16.1 AC volts. Dont know if this is because i had the battery charger on it while i replaced the regulator since ive had to mow with no charging going on. The battery light is now off just concerned my numbers for AC and DC arent where Chuck said they should be. After $300 for alternator and $110 for regulator just thought the numbers would be higher. I am hoping i wired the regulator correctly since i had to scrap the plug and both the wires from alternator are the same color. Thanks for all the help guys. Let me know what you think Jim
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Jim,
You should be seeing 30+ volts AC on the alternator output when it is DISCONNECTED from the harness and the engine is running at mid throttle. Your use of the word 'probed' might mean you did not have the connector separated and were measuring relative to system ground and that could account for the difference in AC readings you quote.
Your DC reading on the battery when the engine is running is not nearly high enough to be correct. Have you used your meter to measure other voltages so you can trust its readings? Does your car battery show 13.5 volts or so with the engine running? Does the wall plug show 115 volts on the AC range of your meter?
My guess is we are not done with the troubleshooting yet...
Chuck
You should be seeing 30+ volts AC on the alternator output when it is DISCONNECTED from the harness and the engine is running at mid throttle. Your use of the word 'probed' might mean you did not have the connector separated and were measuring relative to system ground and that could account for the difference in AC readings you quote.
Your DC reading on the battery when the engine is running is not nearly high enough to be correct. Have you used your meter to measure other voltages so you can trust its readings? Does your car battery show 13.5 volts or so with the engine running? Does the wall plug show 115 volts on the AC range of your meter?
My guess is we are not done with the troubleshooting yet...
Chuck
Chuck i was ready to take the alternator back to mother Deere when i decided to switch the two wires from the alternator on the plug from the regulator. I then tested the red wire going from regulator to starter and it showed 14 volts dc. The battery light is off. I will mow with it again this weekend and check again to make sure it is charging, but for now it looks like i just had the wires switch when i cut them from the burnt plug and plugged them in wrong to the new regulator. I appreciate all the help,diagrams and info. Jim
Chuck,
Sorry to take so long in responding....lots of things going on - grass to mow, garden to work, fishing, ball games, wife, etc....
Anyway - tested the alternator at the X16 terminal on the voltage regulator today like you said - 14.6 volts - battery showed 12.5 volts.
Cranks and runs perfectly - but battery light still coming on.
Sorry to take so long in responding....lots of things going on - grass to mow, garden to work, fishing, ball games, wife, etc....
Anyway - tested the alternator at the X16 terminal on the voltage regulator today like you said - 14.6 volts - battery showed 12.5 volts.
Cranks and runs perfectly - but battery light still coming on.
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Mark,
If the #950 Red wire at X16 shows 14.6 volts that means the charging system is TRYING to charge the battery. If the battery terminal is reading 12.5 volts that means that there is a very poor or no connection from the red wire to the + terminal of the battery (maybe the ring connector on the B stud of the starter motor...) In any event no current is flowing -- hence the lamp is lit.
I think you have it pretty well narrowed down now...
Chuck
If the #950 Red wire at X16 shows 14.6 volts that means the charging system is TRYING to charge the battery. If the battery terminal is reading 12.5 volts that means that there is a very poor or no connection from the red wire to the + terminal of the battery (maybe the ring connector on the B stud of the starter motor...) In any event no current is flowing -- hence the lamp is lit.
I think you have it pretty well narrowed down now...
Chuck
Chuck,
Sorry to take so long in responding....lots of things going on - grass to mow, garden to work, fishing, ball games, wife, etc....
Anyway - tested the alternator at the X16 terminal on the voltage regulator today like you said - 14.6 volts - battery showed 12.5 volts.
Cranks and runs perfectly - but battery light still coming on.
Question of the day coming from a electrician who worked in the controls trade for over 50 years. Have you checked the wire from the post of the regulator which is the DC out, to the battery? Splices, connections or a fuse in the wire?
If you connected the "new" regulator the same as the old and it was wrong, chances are the old regulator was ok, just connected wrong.
Sorry to take so long in responding....lots of things going on - grass to mow, garden to work, fishing, ball games, wife, etc....
Anyway - tested the alternator at the X16 terminal on the voltage regulator today like you said - 14.6 volts - battery showed 12.5 volts.
Cranks and runs perfectly - but battery light still coming on.
Question of the day coming from a electrician who worked in the controls trade for over 50 years. Have you checked the wire from the post of the regulator which is the DC out, to the battery? Splices, connections or a fuse in the wire?
If you connected the "new" regulator the same as the old and it was wrong, chances are the old regulator was ok, just connected wrong.
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