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Discussion Starter #1
Looking for some opinions on overheating when it's 76F outside, mowing with 332 + 50" mower + speed up pulley + PTO driven MCS. Overheat light came on after ~30 minutes. I have a reasonable knowledge of how things go with these tractors, but I can't hold a candle to likely most of you guys. I'm sure there is something simple to get things fixed.

I'm obsessive when it comes to keeping things clean and running smoothly. I clean out the grills/radiator after every mowing. Coolant is Coolgard-II less than 2 years old.

Last fall I picked up leaves every couple days for an hour+ at a time and had no issues. However, I did not have the speed up pulley at the time.

I swapped this engine AND its radiator into a nicer tractor at the end of December. Radiator looks brand new inside, fins are clean and straight. The engine/rad that were being replaced had zero overheating issues over the course of 4 years, including using the MCS. Engine had bad blow by, and was definitely under powered. The radiator was packed full of scale and nasty stuff. Figure I made the right call keeping the better engine and better looking radiator.

At the time I swapped engines, I adjusted fuel...see "7" below.

I started going through the tech manual for troubleshooting, and here's what I came up with based on the book...

  1. Test coolant temp light/switch - light comes on when it's supposed to...my radiator cap has a thermometer on it and I verified with a thermocouple as well.
  2. Check thermostat - I have not done this yet. It's only $20 for a new one, but it's also easy to get a pot of water hot and measure for 8mm+ stroke on the thermostat. Is it common for these to fail closed or not stroke all the way open? I read that they should be replaced every 1200hr or 2 years.
  3. Test cooling system - I tested the rad/cap with a cooling system pressure test kit a few weeks ago for a different but apparently related reason. All is good. Details upon request.
  4. Check for excessive hydraulic system temp - I installed a hydro cooler this spring, so I can't imagine this is a problem? Haven't had any problems before or since with the hydro, no indications there's an issue. Thoughts?
  5. Test injection nozzles - I had them rebuilt by a professional last year. The tractor otherwise runs fantastic, loads up well, doesn't bog, ect... I have no reason to believe this is a problem.
  6. Check injection pump timing - Why would this be a problem? I haven't touched it.
  7. Adjust fuel controller - OK, so I did adjust this about 1/8 of a turn up last December when I swapped engines. I can't imagine this is the problem, as I know a lot of people do this, and I had done this in the past on a different 332 with no problems. It's easy enough to undo though, so I'll probably do this first. Thoughts?
  8. Inspect for piston scoring - again, it starts great, runs great, loads up great, sounds great. I change the dual air filters annually, use good quality diesel, and I use the Deere summer/winter additives, so I don't have any reason to believe this is a problem.
What about the water pump? It's not indicated as a solution in the tech manual. There are no leaks except for a little dribble out of the overflow when it got hot.
 

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It looks like you've done your homework. I think I would start with the thermostat. They do get weak especially with age
Tom
 

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Before replacing/repairing things, I'd do one more check. Lowe's...and prolly others... have digital temp gauges for $30 to $50. Clean bottom/belly screen, radiator screen, cooling holes in pedestal and blow out radiator fins...if you haven't already done so! Run/work tractor until temp light comes on and then read/measure temperature where the sensor & thermostat are. Temp light should come on at 225ºF-235ºF. Thermostat should be full open at 184ºF. SOO! If your around 190ºF and light is on, bad sensor. If temp is in fact 235ºF+, could be bad thermostat... remove and do hot water test..., or bad water pump. You said radiator looked good so let's forget about that for now.

The only other thought I'd have is to do a radiator/cooling system flush. If system hasn't been flushed...ever!... you could have rust & sludge in the engine block. This tends to insulate the block and the coolant doesn't absorb the heat until engine gets REAL HOT. If coolant is 5 or 6 years old, scrap it. If a year or 2, save it. JD and auto parts stores have radiator flush chemicals, Can't recommend a particular, I don't know what's better or worse! Follow directions and flush system. Running MORE than the time on the directions won't hurt. Refill coolant and run. If it still overheats, I'd say bad water pump.

Try some checks and report back, Bob
 

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If you remove the thermostat, if you're able to check the coolant flow, do so. I'm not sure what the arrangement is on your tractor but on the 430, there's nothing to see under the radiator cap because it's not inline with the flow. But if it is on your machine, then checking the flow will tell you if there is a blockage elsewhere slowing the flow. Usual candidate if so, is the radiator tubes.
 

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One question, when installing engine in frame was there any silicone sealant used anywhere on the engine where it could have migrated into the cooling system? It would take a substantial amount to cause issues but just because the system looks clean....
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thanks everyone! I'm planning to check the thermostat tonight. I didn't think to check the temperature at the t-stat, but I did verify that the light comes on when it's 222F. Tiny bit low per what you said Bob, but I'll happily let the light come on a wee bit early as an extra safety precaution :)

I can confirm there was no silicone sealant anywhere visible on the engine. It was remarkably clean, considering it's out of an '87. The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a flush. Certainly can't hurt either! Coolant is <2 years old, but I guarantee it's never been flushed. I do recall eyeballing inside the coolant hoses and the water pump inlet and them looking clean, compared to the other motor which was very scaly and nasty (though never overheating). I'll pickup some flush on the way home tonight, since I'll be draining the coolant to check the t-stat anyway.

Will start with the T-stat test tonight!

-Aaron-
 

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FWIW- I bought a Farmall M once that had a system that looked clean at the radiator neck. But I opened the drain cock and nothing...no water no nothing. I removed the drain cock completely, nothing! I pocked a screwdriver in the hole...and solid dry packed dirt came out. Hmmm?

It took a lot of poking to find the liquid up inside that radiator but I finally did and then it took a long time of just letting the garden hose run through the system before it started running clear. Then more poking. and a couple of Prestone flushes later I called it good enough. Is it clean? Very doubtful. But it doesn't overheat. And I didn't have to spend a fortune in time and money to remove the radiator (which on a Farmall requires removing the steering rod that goes through a hole in the radiator top) and take it in to the radiator shop (30 miles away) to have them boil it out. It's been 12 years now, no other problems with the cooling system so far.
 

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Aaron, Just curious, do you have CTM3 or just the TM for the 332? CTM3 is a manual for the Yanmar 3TN66UJ plus a few more. I can get you a (free!!) link if you don't have it.

I'm not familiar with your engine, but taake a look at the block when you drain coolant for your flush...EXCELLENT idea by the way! I think you'll find a plug to drain more coolant from block and not dilute the flush... Remember to remove this when draining the flush also! Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Bob - I do have CTM3 as well. I didn't spend a ton of time digging through it yet. Just enough time to find the 78in-lb spec for the t-stat housing!
 

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Randy, Just as a piece of my useless information! Boiling a radiator helps ONLY if the tubes are not blocked. When blocked, boiling doesn't always remove the blockage. It next needs to be "rodded". The top & bottom tanks are removed and small rods, hence the name, are forced through the tubes to break the blockage. A good shop will reasm radiator and then re-boil. Bob
 
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I did not know that! I've heard of rodding but only thought it pertained to steam generators to descale them.

BTW- the local radiator shop has to be good. Their name is 'Stoners' hahaha! Inside joke...
 

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Check the v - belt also, condition and tension. I figure you would have put a new one on though, but it could be loose.
You can use that temp gun to check the exhaust manifold right where each cylinder exits head.
Check your coolant concentration, water doesnt work very well. I like the good old fashioned green prestone stuff. The extended life stuff leads to issues.
As suggested, flush the system. Then refill with water, drain then new coolant.
I've read these diesel cooling systems are marginal for size.
Also, like mentioned, find the block drain and remove it. I know you said it was really clean, but nobody flushes their cooling system every 4 years. Theirs debris, rust, scale, crud in there someplace.
That's all I can think of right now.
Oh, the rad cap. I'm guessing it relieved pressure at 10 or 12 psi. Push comes to shove, get a higher pressure cap. Every pound of pressure raises boiling point 3 degrees.
Now, that's it, lol.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
Skwirl - you're correct that I did replace and tension the belt. The Deere coolant is only a little over a year old, as I changed it myself. But I still do plan to do a flush at this point if for no other reason than for preventative maintenance.

It was burping a little coolant every mow this summer, 20-30mL each time. Holding steady at around 95C/203F after an hour mowing. I pressure tested the cap and again you hit it right exactly; it only held 12PSI. However, I'm willing to bet the 30+ year old cap was already bad, but I was never getting hot enough to build 12psi (until this new problem arose). I replaced the cap (pressure tested to 15psi first), and now instead of expelling a little coolant, it's overheating. I assume the new issue made the bad cap problem show itself. Just a theory.

That being said! I removed the thermostat this evening. It was super shiny and clean. I cooked it in a pot over the stove to 85C/185F (full open spec), and it only would stroke ~5mm (minimum 8mm spec). I then heated it up to 98C/208F for at least 10 minutes, and it didn't stroke any more. I'm encouraged that this is the smoking gun. I'll get a new t-stat in the next day or two, boil them both together and compare.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.

-Aaron-
 

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When you refill the system with coolant, if you know someone with an airlift ask to use it. It vacuums the air out, then it just pulls the coolant back in. No air pockets when using it.
Also, if you dont need the higher pressure cap, dont use one. It's a band aid fix anyway.
Plus if there is a possible leak location, the higher cap will help the leak.
Plus it's normal for an open end cooling system to burp some coolant out. The trick is to not fill the rad all the way. Just a little below the neck should work.
You can also add some conditioner stuff to the new coolant. Itll help lube pump bearing.

Finally, if your issue happens again, I'd remove water pump to inspect impeller. The impellars used to be cast iron. I've seen them rust away and dont drive the coolant.
Also squeeze your hoses, feeling for a weak spot. Especially the lower hose. That weak spot can be sucked closed on the lower hose. Unless JD put a spring inside it, dont know if they did. You can also remove the side screens on the pedestal and rad screen.
Run it till hot, shoot rad with temp gun. See if theres a cold or hot spot.
Ok, I think that's it, lol.
 

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The 332 leaves no margin for error when it comes to the cooling system. If everything is operating properly you can roll coal for hours without issues. Get a little grass on the radiator screen or have the underbelly screen plugged and you'll have problems mowing the lawn at 1/2 throttle.

-Is your hydraulic cooler in any way blocking/reducing airflow through the radiator? Is it increasing/preheating the air that heads through the radiator?
-Test your thermostat.
-Make sure your radiator is not plugged (internally - reducing coolant flow).
-Make sure you are using the proper coolant (not just the "green stuff" - you need proper diesel coolant) and it's not old. Make sure you have sufficient coolant in the system.
-Make sure your radiator cap is functioning properly.
-Make sure your engine fan is installed the correct way. Make sure it's sitting in the fan shroud properly. Too far out or not centered can reduce airflow. Make sure the blades haven't been ground down. As motor mounts wear the blades can rub.

EDIT Sounds like it might be the thermostat. Hope so, that's an easy fix! Good luck!
 

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I'd then suggest that if one is available get a high flow type t-stat. Stant still makes good t-stats (I think). Assuming anyone still makes anything that could be considered 'good' or better. Unfortunately I think the "buy me because I flooded the market with my name" types have taken the lead on sales these days, regardless of how good they actually are. Consider oil filters...the massive name now is K&N. Not saying they are bad filters but the old standby filter is just as good and half the price and still made by Wix (Wix also makes all of Napa's filters). Sometimes the 'new and improved' sold under a new name isn't actually better, just more of their products have hit the market. Kinda like when Mr. Gasket went on a buying spree and bought nearly every major hot rod and 'go fast' part producer in America. Bigger name doesn't necessarily make a better product. Just sayin.

OK, rant about quality is over. Irrelevant.

greg86z28 makes a good point about the shroud around the fan. It doesn't seem like much, but don't ever underestimate the importance of that shroud! The back wash (Jetjoe might know a better technical term for this) around the ends of a rotating fan blade can cause dead zones in the air movement. In essence, they cancel out and reduce some of the air movement through the radiator. It's like the air just constantly turns in a closed circle at the ends of the fan blades. The shroud directs that circle of air into a more linear pattern that does go through the radiator. It helps build a high pressure area between the fan the radiator. That leaves a low pressure area on the opposite side of the radiator that the air wants to fill so it goes through the radiator, it has no choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Randy - I ordered the standard 71C/160F from Deere + the o-ring for all of $22. When I get it, I'll put it in a pot of water with the old one and compare the movement. I do readily agree with your rant though! In all honesty, as an engineer at a major auto OEM, I have a newfound respect for OEM quality parts. Discussion for a different day ;)

The second thing I checked (after grill blockage) was the fan/shroud. I made sure to shim my engine mounts when I installed it too. They're all sitting at about 37-38mm high. The fan blades measure the same length as what I can find an original fan should be (also no witness of rubbing either on the fan or shroud). Also, the gap around the fan to the shroud is very uniform at about 7 or 8mm. I actually deal with fans/shrouds in my line of work. The airflow pattern you're referring to we call "recirculation," or "eddy flow." I've actually taken to seal the gaps around the edges, top, and bottom of the radiator to further prevent recirculation and the fan pulling air around the radiator rather than through it.

If it wasn't clear, the hydro oil cooler is located downstream of the fan and air path. Horizontally, right below the driveshaft, next to the TDCM/Glow plug Module. Hot air is pushed through it, rather than cool air drawn through. Obviously not as efficient at cooling, but my setup is the same as the Deere optional hydro oil cooler for 322/332s, so I figure it is good enough. I see no reason to believe that this air outlet restriction increase is enough to cause coolant overheating. I had thought first to place the hydro cooler on top of the belly screen originally, but thought better of it due to the pre-heating of the air before the radiator, as greg86Z28 mentioned.

Skwirl - I can confirm the lower rad hose has the heavy duty spring in it, and the hose does not suck flat (have seen that before on a car!). The hoses both feel good and stiff, and I'm familiar with your description of the soft spots in old worn out hoses. As a preventative maintenance check, I will take a better look at the hoses just in case, as I didn't think about that before :) Also, I originally thought the coolant burping out the cap was due to over filling like you said (as I think I did overfill it a little). I measured what would come out after mowing, and let it continue to happen throughout the summer, assuming it would stop once it got to a good level that it "liked" per what I have read elsewhere on WFM. Decided to check the cap pressure setting once the level got lower than I thought was right. That's when I found the cap only holding 11-12psi, to a min spec of 13psi. New caps from Deere are supposed to be 14-15psi. That prompted me to buy a new cap (which also tested 12psi), which I returned for a second new cap (which tested 15psi).

Will let y'all know what I find as soon as I get that new t-stat!
 

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Sorry if I appear to talk to everyone as though they don't know anything...I do that with the idea that I'm talking to a future passerby that really doesn't have a clue about some things mechanical. Basic info never hurts to be reiterated.

Unfortunately, I'm still a young 63 but I'm losing my ability to recall certain memories correctly. If I don't use it, I lose it. One of those things that I know I know, I just can't get it up front and center to relate. It's frustrating at times. Which is why I do a lot of typing on forums, it stimulates my brain in ways I don't get out here on the acreage with nobody to talk to.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It's all good Randy. I, for one know it is with the best of intentions :)

I picked up the new thermostat today, and boiled both for 10ish minutes. I did not get the expected result. I took a scale and stuck it in the top before and after. The scale goes down about 1mm. After getting them both hot, it goes down ~6mm. Which means about a 5mm stroke. I fully expected the new one to pretty much stroke twice as much as the old one, since the minimum spec is 8mm. What do you guys think, maybe a bad part? Maybe both are good?

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