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Knockknock, I thought the speed up pulley was standard on the 332 to make up for the lower rpm max compared to the Onan? Thanks B
 

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Discussion Starter · #422 ·
Knockknock, I thought the speed up pulley was standard on the 332 to make up for the lower rpm max compared to the Onan? Thanks B
Nope, still optional. All 3 engines had the same rated eRPM. For reference, here's the HP/Torque curves for the diesel I received from Yanmar. Notice the Continuous, One hour, and Max Power curve differences. Torque plotted is max.

Seeing this, by all rights, I wouldn't entirely expect performance to be much different from what I am experiencing. Only because others have said they don't overheat under similar conditions does it make me think I have a problem.

Rectangle Slope Plot Font Line



One other thing. I was going through the MCS owner's manual yesterday, and I came across something interesting. Under "Tractor requirements," it states the MCS is made for the 316, 318, 420, and 430. No mention of the 322 or 332.
 
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knockknock332,

What is the date on the MCS manual? The 332 and 322 were not part of the initial open frame tractor lineup and came a few years later... The early 316 had the same peak power as the 332 and less than the 322 so that may not be the issue causing these two models to not be included in the MCS manual...

Chuck
 

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Discussion Starter · #424 ·
knockknock332,

What is the date on the MCS manual? The 332 and 322 were not part of the initial open frame tractor lineup and came a few years later... The early 316 had the same peak power as the 332 and less than the 322 so that may not be the issue causing these two models to not be included in the MCS manual...

Chuck
Nailed it; February 1984. Interesting, as I bought the digital download directly from Deere (only one they had available), no updated revisions.
 

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added some foam around where the airbox slots into the plastic piece attached to the radiator.
Got any pics of the new foam addition? 30F drop in IAT would be worth it for what little work it would be. Did the coolant temp change any as a result of lower IAT?
 

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Discussion Starter · #426 ·
I had a strip of soft closed cell foam I stuffed around the circumference. It's worth noting too that my filter minder gauge did not change after this either. Which tells me that the foam is not increasing restriction, but forcing it to come through the hole above the rad.


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I'll try this on mine and see if has any effect. Thanks for the tip.

Henry.
 

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I had a strip of soft closed cell foam I stuffed around the circumference. It's worth noting too that my filter minder gauge did not change after this either. Which tells me that the foam is not increasing restriction, but forcing it to come through the hole above the rad.


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Hi Arron, Did your air filter come with the filter minder or did you adapted it yourself. Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #429 ·
I had to buy the filter minder separate, but it is still available from Deere. The airbox too. It has gone up in price in the last few years.

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I did. It makes like a 6F difference in coolant temperature. Surprisingly little. Open the hood, and all the problems go away. Opening the hood allows for unrestricted fresh air to come in through the space between the dash and the radiator (not breathing in through a straw), and freely flowing out of the fan mostly by the radiator inlet hose on the right, and above the injection pump on the left. Hood closed makes it outlet restricted, as it has to force the air along the sides of the engine to the front, and out the bottom. Each having the hood open, and the fresh air unrestricted are worth 9F in coolant temperature, together 18F in decreased radiator inlet temperature with the hood open vs the hood closed.
Sounds like it needs a mesh screen in the nose of the hood like the 60 series John Deere’s.
And a 36F IAT drop is substantial I think that’s around a 20% increase in density but I could be wrong.

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Discussion Starter · #431 ·
Definitely not insignificant. I added foam around the top of the rad firewall too, which made another 9 degrees improvement. I need to replace the foam on the hood, and the foam on the firewall below the radiator. I'm just not sure what I'm going to use yet.

I really like the idea of the mesh screen on the 4960 there. More airflow = cooler rad and induction. I'm wondering if I couldn't install some sort of snorkel on the induction inlet, and pipe it further away from the radiator (like under the dash pedestal) to get further induction temp improvement. At this point, I'm going full on "continuous improvement mode." The 3TN68e came with a donut style engine oil cooler (oil-coolant). If I make some mods for super airflow cooling, I might opt for one of those oil coolers too.
 

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Definitely not insignificant. I added foam around the top of the rad firewall too, which made another 9 degrees improvement. I need to replace the foam on the hood, and the foam on the firewall below the radiator. I'm just not sure what I'm going to use yet.

I really like the idea of the mesh screen on the 4960 there. More airflow = cooler rad and induction. I'm wondering if I couldn't install some sort of snorkel on the induction inlet, and pipe it further away from the radiator (like under the dash pedestal) to get further induction temp improvement. At this point, I'm going full on "continuous improvement mode." The 3TN68e came with a donut style engine oil cooler (oil-coolant). If I make some mods for super airflow cooling, I might opt for one of those oil coolers too.
You also have the problem of the intake heat soaking. I imagine you could modify some 318 side panels to fit and have the engine suck air from one of the screens. Kinda makes me wonder how Mike Duwe got away with just sucking in engine compartment air on his turbo 332. His IAT’s must’ve been cooking.
 

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You could cut a vent in the hood, right over the filter holder/bracket, and put a scoop there. It draws/moves air just like a 322 right? Pulls in air up through the belly screen and from the pedestal mesh vents...sucks it through the radiator and exhausts it out of the front of the side panels with engine heat. A snorkel down low might be problematic if it's too low.
 

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Discussion Starter · #434 ·
Yeah, super high induction temps plus turbo and no intercooler can't be THAT great for power or cooling, all things considered.

So, two more things I learned today. First: in the Yanmar application manual, one of the possible solutions to an overheating engine (or running at "excessively high ambient), is to run an engine that has more HP. It's funny at first, but kinda makes sense. Same load for larger engine would be less stress on the engine, and somewhat lower cooling demand.

The second item...The injection timing is supposed to be 13* BTDC according to the JD 220 manual for the diesel. However, we've already established that there are errors in the manual (for example the thermostat spec). I found that in the YANMAR manual for the same engine, it states that the injection timing should be 14* BTDC for medium speed engine applications (3000 RPM or less). Or, 18* BTDC for high speed engine applications (3000-3600RPM). That's a big difference.

Since the loaded engine runs at around 3200RPM, maybe I ought to advance the timing a scoche . Intrigue.

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Discussion Starter · #435 ·
You could cut a vent in the hood, right over the filter holder/bracket, and put a scoop there. It draws/moves air just like a 322 right? Pulls in air up through the belly screen and from the pedestal mesh vents...sucks it through the radiator and exhausts it out of the front of the side panels with engine heat. A snorkel down low might be problematic if it's too low.
Yes, my thought would be either carve out the hood right above and rearward of the radiator (could he beneficial to engine cooling too). Or, snorkel down just near the dash (not down as far as the belly screen).

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Yeah, super high induction temps plus turbo and no intercooler can't be THAT great for power or cooling, all things considered.

So, two more things I learned today. First: in the Yanmar application manual, one of the possible solutions to an overheating engine (or running at "excessively high ambient), is to run an engine that has more HP. It's funny at first, but kinda makes sense. Same load for larger engine would be less stress on the engine, and somewhat lower cooling demand.

The second item...The injection timing is supposed to be 13* BTDC according to the JD 220 manual for the diesel. However, we've already established that there are errors in the manual (for example the thermostat spec). I found that in the YANMAR manual for the same engine, it states that the injection timing should be 14* BTDC for medium speed engine applications (3000 RPM or less). Or, 18* BTDC for high speed engine applications (3000-3600RPM). That's a big difference.

Since the loaded engine runs at around 3200RPM, maybe I ought to advance the timing a scoche . Intrigue.

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18* BTDC is a good chunk of timing over the 8* that you originally had. Heck it’s a good chunk over 13*. Mine with all its hours is probably worse than yours at 8*. I guess worse case scenario you could just drop it back to 13-15 if it isn’t any better. But more advanced should drop EGTs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #437 ·
18* BTDC is a good chunk of timing over the 8* that you originally had. Heck it’s a good chunk over 13*. Mine with all its hours is probably worse than yours at 8*. I guess worse case scenario you could just drop it back to 13-15 if it isn’t any better. But more advanced should drop EGTs.
My thought exactly. First however, would be to confirm what the timing mark on the flywheel actually is. Can't adjust without a frame of reference. Need to measure the diameter or circumference of the flywheel. Anyone have one sitting on a bench? Would make it a lot easier For reference, my EGT at the muffler tip is right around 900F with the MCS going.

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How many flywheel teeth between TDC and 13* BTDC? Then extrapolate that to teeth per 360* and you should have an approximation of teeth per degree of timing...unless you want to pull flywheel cover and count, or count teeth per 1 full revolution thru the timing port. Depends how precise you want/need to be.
 

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If I understand what your trying to do is, confirm timing mark on flywheel is at 13 *.
I'm pretty sure the only way to do that is by using a degree wheel. In this case, the degree wheel would get mounted on the crank. Then using the piston to locate tdc. It's a little tricky to locate true tdc, theres a few degrees that the piston floats at tdc, till the crank starts down.

When tdc is located, set your degree wheel to timing mark on case on make your own mark. Now you use the wheel as the guide, rotate to the degree you want, 13 btdc in this case. Check your flywheel mark.
Without the degree wheel and piston tdc, your guessing. But a few degrees shouldn't matter that much, when your using 13 btdc.
Advancing it to 18, I'd prefer to make sure its 18.

This will be an interesting experiment.
 

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Each 0.100” from the #1 TDC mark on the flywheel is 1* of timing. 0.100”x 360= a circumference of 36”. Or a diameter of around 11.4”.
 
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