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Discussion Starter #81
Oh yeah, I guess I failed to explain details! The tester I have is older, before having the bulb they all have now on top. So there is a hose that runs from the top (where the bulb is now) that is supposed to be run to manifold vacuum. Not an option on the diesel!

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Ahh, Got it! thanks, Bob
 

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I've gotta ask...you don't have a self service brake bleeding kit with a manual vacuum pump? Not a big deal using the car, but just wondering. I know a lot of folks have gone to using those self bleed plugs at all four corners or where ever they have a hydraulic brake. The kind that has a check valve built into it. crack them all open and pump or pressurize the brake system and it's done....almost. But that's a different story.

Those little hand held vacuum pumps come in handy for a lot of little things.
 

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Discussion Starter #84
I've gotta ask...you don't have a self service brake bleeding kit with a manual vacuum pump? Not a big deal using the car, but just wondering. I know a lot of folks have gone to using those self bleed plugs at all four corners or where ever they have a hydraulic brake. The kind that has a check valve built into it. crack them all open and pump or pressurize the brake system and it's done....almost. But that's a different story.

Those little hand held vacuum pumps come in handy for a lot of little things.
That's a good idea. Unfortunately no, I don't have one. I just let em gravity bleed as a general rule.

I just finished picking up a load of leaves. I stopped every 5 or 10 minutes to monitor the temp at the thermostat housing, and it was definitely headed towards overheating. I removed the hydro oil cooler this morning and out a thermocouple in place of the cooler. Got up to ~180F, so I'm definitely not worried about that being too hot.

I took a look at my bucket of old coolant as well. Nothing to skim off the top, however, there appears to be soot sediment on the bottom. The black drain pan has what came out with the flush. I poured a spare water bottle into the middle, and you can see in witness of sediment that pushed aside as a result. Leaning towards a head gasket. Will find out on Tuesday.



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You're gonna have that to some degree with a diesel. They are pretty dirty engines. You can get coolant tested too I believe. I've never done it though. Maybe ask at the JD dealer. Or will that test you are discussing tell that tale?

Personal opinion here...if you had a head gasket leak I believe if it was bad enough to cause a overheat situation you would definitely see oily residue in the coolant or at least be able to smell it. My thinking here is that diesel would only be partially burned by the time it was quenched by the coolant. But it also works both ways...the combustion gases would enter the coolant; on the intake stroke the coolant would be sucked into the combustion chamber.

One other point, coolant doesn't burn very good, not like water anyway. If coolant was getting into the exhaust track it would cause a slobber to puke out the end of the pipe. A nasty black slime.

You mention that only few ounces ( I refuse to deal with metric 😁 ) comes out the overflow? And the radiator is not overfilled? I think that a head gasket leak is not likely. The overflow would almost certainly be continuous as the cooling system continues to be pressurized. Still only opinions here. I've encountered a lot of situations once...that doesn't make me an expert. But something has got to stick with this problem. I think at this point you need to send out an oil sample and a coolant sample for professional evaluation with real spectrometers and other such mysterious equipment. :oops:
 

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Discussion Starter #86
You're gonna have that to some degree with a diesel. They are pretty dirty engines. You can get coolant tested too I believe. I've never done it though. Maybe ask at the JD dealer. Or will that test you are discussing tell that tale?

Personal opinion here...if you had a head gasket leak I believe if it was bad enough to cause a overheat situation you would definitely see oily residue in the coolant or at least be able to smell it. My thinking here is that diesel would only be partially burned by the time it was quenched by the coolant. But it also works both ways...the combustion gases would enter the coolant; on the intake stroke the coolant would be sucked into the combustion chamber.

One other point, coolant doesn't burn very good, not like water anyway. If coolant was getting into the exhaust track it would cause a slobber to puke out the end of the pipe. A nasty black slime.

You mention that only few ounces ( I refuse to deal with metric ) comes out the overflow? And the radiator is not overfilled? I think that a head gasket leak is not likely. The overflow would almost certainly be continuous as the cooling system continues to be pressurized. Still only opinions here. I've encountered a lot of situations once...that doesn't make me an expert. But something has got to stick with this problem. I think at this point you need to send out an oil sample and a coolant sample for professional evaluation with real spectrometers and other such mysterious equipment. :oops:
I asked the dealer, and they don't do any testing of fluids apart from a head gasket leak detect like I'm planning. I sent an oil sample out, so that will be able to tell of there is coolant in the oil, or fuel, ect...

No smell, that's definitely a valid point. 1 oz max coming out the overflow into my catch can after almost and hour running. Even today, and I stopped frequently to allow for cooling below 212F coolant temp. I don't think it's overfilled because it kept doing it throughout the summer, even when it got right down to the radiator tubes.

I'll do some research on sending a coolant sample out, and anxiously wait for Tuesday so I can run the leak detect on the radiator

When you say continuous, do you mean a constant small stream coming out the overflow? Like I could sit there and measure an actual flow rate were it filling a vessel with graduations? It does not appear to be like that unless it's VERY little flow.

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My limited experience was that it was not continuous like a faucet but sputtrering continuously a bit ever few seconds. The pressure builds, it pukes, the pressure is relieved, then repeat. If the coolant were overheated to the point of boiling it would be constant but it would be in massive amounts. Think liquid under pressure not boiling at a super-heated 220°. Then it pushes open the cap that has a set point of 15psi. The sudden loss of pressure makes matters worse, it flashes into steam. Once that happens it's not stopping since steam takes up vast amounts of volume so it has to continue keeping the cap open until one of two things happens, it runs out of super-heated liquid, or the venting of the steam cools the liquid down to below the boiling point of the pressure it's at, whatever that pressure may be. The cap continues trying to close so that pressure will be 15psi or less. That doesn't mean the liquid is now at less than atmospheric boiling point temperature however. But that the pressures between atmospheric and internal have reached an equilibrium. If by this time the heat source has not been removed then the cycle continues.

That's not happening with yours. It just pushes a little out every now and again. That's not actual overheating in that regard I don't think. But it's going a little over the cap's setting all the same. Just figuring out why is the problem.
 

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I did a little checking on mine today. This is after mowing 1.5 hrs.
Temps from my IR gun...
Top tank - 198
Bottom tank - 170
T - stat housing - 207
Air side, middle of rad - 192
Engine side of rad - 184

I did use a thermal, but I forgot to stop the auto flash on my phone, so there not great.
T stat and rad...
259935


Front of rad thru left screen area.
259936


You cant see it in the 2nd pic, but I could on the thermal. Bottom center of rad I have some crud built up in the cooling fins. I could see an area that was dark in color. No air thru there. But the rad looked pretty even for yellow color.
I was already planning on pulling the rad at somepoint when I got it.
I think based on the temps, the rad is working at near max potential. They've got to be kept clean. The system in these doesnt have a large capacity of coolant. Which is odd, I'm used to diesels having large rads and capacity.
I've read the 332 cooling system to be marginal, now I agree with that.

When I get a chance, mine is going to work with me and get a good flushing of the block and rad. Several times, then out with the rad and to the rad shop for proper repair.

Hope the temp numbers give you a ballpark of what yours should be.
 

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Discussion Starter #89
That's fantastic information to have. If the temp out of the thermostat was 207, that gives you about 15-18F greater ambient temp than today before getting the overheat light. Assuming the same exact load, ect...so I'm going to guess it was 80F outside? Very curious to know.

For me it was about 75F out. I was also using the MCS, so I'd expect the coolant temp to be hotter.

In general, it is reasonable to "correct" for ambient temperature by up to 12-18F for a given cooling system. My assumption is that it's designed for a 100F day to be able to mow a reasonable thickness/length grass continuously without overheating. Again, an asumption for the system.

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A cheap and easy way to check for head gasket leak is to remove the radiator cap and run engine to operating temp, then install cap and run for a while longer. If there is pressure when you remove the cap, it’s from combustion pressure.
 

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It was around 75 yesterday here. I used mine this summer in 90 + heat, no issue.
You should be able to run anything PTO wise with these. Maybe get close to an overheat temp, but the cooling system should be large enough to maintain the temp. Even if the system isnt 100 % .
The size of the rad is marginal in these.
If you do have a head gasket issue, it's a small one. Cause theres a lot of pressure in that cyl when it lites off, a lot of pressure.
2 or 3 times what a gasser has.
I was told years ago, the temp in the cyl needs to be around 900 degrees for the fuel to ignite. That's why the compression is so high.
If the cyl head has a hot pocket, which is a preheat chamber, then it could have a crack there. I've seen a lot of 4 cyl diesel heads that develop a crack in that hot pocket. I Dont know what yanmar did there.
But you would get coolant in the oil. Your using extended life stuff. That stuff doesnt make the gray gooo. It mixes with the oil and thins it out. Sometimes you can feel it with your fingers. The thinned oil doesnt coat the ridges on your skin.
An oil sample is best here. We get our test kits from International, them send them someplace, then wait.
I'd remove rad and have it checked and cleaned, first.
Good luck.
 
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Discussion Starter #92
Ran the head gasket leak detect today. I first ran the engine for about 30-40 minutes worth of leaf pickup. Radiator top tank temp over 212F, so presumably it would have overheated on this 62F day. I also collected another ounce of coolant from the overflow.

Skwirl - how'd you measure bottom tank temp?

I bought the diesel specific detect fluid and used a small electric vacuum pump. The vacuum from the car was waaaaayyyyyy too much.

I removed a bunch of coolant from the top tank, stuffed the tapered end into the rad, turned on the vacuum pump and started the engine. I ran it for probably 10ish minutes at half speed with the radiator blocked with cardboard. IR gun showed temp of around 186F at the thermostat housing, so I know the thermostat was open. I got a few bubbles through the device, but no color change. After a few seconds it stopped bubbling, presumably because of pressure equalization. I occasionally would pull the detector out of the radiator just to see everything was working as it should, and that the coolant level didn't get too high. Coolant was always visibly flowing like crazy.

Afterwords, I blew into the device to make sure the fluid would change color (as the instructions say to to pre test) and it did.

Looks to me like a pass. I sent out a coolant sample yesterday too BTW. I'll remove the radiator next and take it to a local shop.



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You said the coolant was moving like crazy...you still think the expense of a radiator shop (and the time spent removing the radiator) is worth it? I suppose it is since that just verifies that the pump is working good.

Personally, I think now is the time to throw in the towel and take it to a dealer. Throwing money at it is fine, but there really needs to be a good reason to do so. Just my humble broke opinion. Not discounting the learning experiences here either. Since you are an engineer I can feel your pain of letting someone else do it. I'm not an engineer and I do feel that the learning is worth the expense (sometimes). But, in my 'golden years' learning doesn't stick with me very long. YMMV
 

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Discussion Starter #94
So true Randy. To your point, I certainly don't mind throwing money at the problem to make it go away when the time is right. What I worry about is the fact that I trust no dealership as far as I can kick it (historical experience with dealers in general). Though maybe since I have a very good relationship with the parts department at my local place, things will be different. Maybe I'm overly cynical

That aside, what would a dealer do differently from what the book describes/what I've already done? Sure I very well could have goofed any number of the tests thus far (more than likely the case probably). Maybe my opinion of "good flow" visible with the cap off is a bad one. Have to sleep on it...

Biggest bummer right now is it's leaf season. I only went through 5 gallons of diesel the entire summer, as my grass grows quite slow, so I don't get to mow more than once a week. I estimated I collected 5300 pounds of leaves last year in 24 full packed loads of the MCS. I rather enjoy riding around as many of you do, and now is the time when I use the little guy the most!

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Mine tractor has the removable screens on the sides of the pedestal. Pulled the left one off.
Before you pull that rad, run some cleaning agent thru the system. Doesnt matter if the rad develops a leak now, going to rad shop anyway. Might as well be worth it, lol.

Check that block drain. Left side of engine in front of filter.

It appears you have an airflow issue thru that rad, or rad flow issue.
Also, my opinion here.....
Junk that elc coolant crap. Put good ole fashioned green in it. That elc crap also suffers from cavitation in the block, unless the proper additives are present. To much to worry about, junk it. Ofcourse ymmv.

I'd recheck the exhaust manifold temps also.
Mine were 215 or so at the ports. It was 220 something were the muffler bolts to manifold. Cast iron and close to water pump and hot air from rad.

Lastly this morning, remove right engine cover and try it. Let the heat out, see what happens.
Check the valve lash to. If theres an exhaust valve not sweating all the way, it doesnt transfer heat or enough heat to the head.
 

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Heres an older thread on rad cleaning....
 

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i had been following this thread and had a thought....
Could it be that a brake is dragging?? Causing some extra load.
 

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Discussion Starter #98
I checked to be sure, nope

Also, I talked to the dealer, they suggested head gasket only leaking under heavy load, so possibly a false negative from the leak detect test. Will be removing the radiator next week to go to shop.

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I have a lot of patience but you have me beat! I'd have used it for target practice by now. See if a 7,62x39 really will penetrate an engine block....
 

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I've read a few old threads on here. Quite a few have dealt with this issue over the years.
Its usually a rad problem, either air being blocked on the outside or scale corrosion on the inside.

One fellow had a rad like the OP here, swore it was clean. He used the oil dipstick, about same size as rad core tube. Stuck it down one, wouldnt go more than an inch and came out full of crude.

The pld saying is - when in doubt, RIP it out.
 
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