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Discussion Starter #1
Hi folks,
I'm new, and desperately seeking advice on a non-starting 332. This garden tractor has been a dream. ALWAYS instant starts, good power, hard working and rugged. It has about 650 hours on it.

BUT...someone stripped the oil drain plug threads on it before I acquired it. So before getting it out for the season, I pulled the motor off the chassis, changed the pan, cleaned everything, and put the tractor back together with new fluids. Now it will not start. It had been about a month since it had been started when I pulled the motor. So far I have:

Removed the fuel filter and fuel lines and blew them out with air.
Bled the fuel system all the way to the cylinders by bleeding at the filter, then the pump, and then by spinning the motor with the glow plugs out until fuel mist blew evenly out of the glow plug holes.
Tried fresh fuel pulled from a separate container just in case the fuel in the tank had somehow 'soured'.
Pulled the glow plugs and checked that they heat, separately and while wired together. They heat just fine for about 15 seconds before timing out.

I've put nearly two hours on the meter testing and spinning the motor. Sometimes it smokes white smoke, sometimes gray, sometimes it doesn't smoke at all. Sometimes a cylinder or even two will hit, sometimes they wont. I don't see how, but could this be wiring thing? Maybe I wired the regulator back wrong. Could I have somehow affected the injection timing without knowing it? The solenoid on the left side of the motor works, but what does it do. Is there some secret safety switch in the thing that I'm not aware of?

It seems like this thing should be running. My weeds are getting taller and my head's about to explode. Pleeeze help! Thanks, Mel
 

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Do you actually have a spark at the plugs?
I fought one loosing a cylinder intermittently to a crack in the epoxy coated coil.
Ran OK after the coil heated up and drove out the moisture.

?? sheared flywheel key, flywheel shifted on crank shaft.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
No sir. No spark plugs. It's diesel. You're right though, I've seen plugs ground through 'invisible' cracks in the insulator before. If I drop a spark plug on the concrete, I usually toss it.
 

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Does it seem like its turning over good? If your battery is low or starter is getting slow it might not be turning over fast enough.
 

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Loren -- there is no spark on a diesel engine, just the glow plugs to assist in cold starting.

Mel,
:welcome: this is the right place to find information on your 332 tractor.

The solenoid on the tractor is a fuel shutoff, and would keep the engine from starting if it is not actuating as it should. Do you have the TM1591 service manual?

Here is the wiring around that solenoid, and the TDCM is involved in controlling the engine shutdown if the operator leaves the seat when the tractor is in use. There are two windings -- one to pull in the solenoid and another to hold it in. If the hold in is not working you may not get the engine to start, and certainly it would not continue to run.

430 fuel shut-off diagram.jpg
 

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Couple things I would suggest.

1. Check the flow on your fuel transfer pump. I've had several of these "dry out" during extended rebuild/repair sessions and stop working. You may not be getting enough fuel.

2. Make sure there are no air restrictions (did you plug the air intake during oil pan replacement)?

3. Make sure glow plugs are correct versions and installed completely, if they are not you'll lose compression. Also make sure injectors are tight in the head.

4. Make sure that the fuel shutoff solenoid is opening, and staying open. This shuts fuel flow off from the injection pump to stop the tractor (its default position is extended, and requires voltage to retract and allow fuel flow). I've had these fail too. Proper operation is to click open when you turn the key to run and stay there. If it clicks open, then shut after a few seconds the "hold" circuit is faulty and its cutting off fuel.

Other than these, I can't think of anything that could have been happened by just changing the oil pan.

There are other things to check that impact compression (valve clearance/head gasket) but these shouldn't have changed unless you had the valve cover off.

Hope this helps.

-Andy
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I just put a new battery on the tractor, though it doesn't turn over any better than the other battery did. I was jumping it off the truck the other day, an spun up a little faster. No start though.

I just checked the fuel shut off solenoid. When the key is turned on, it pulls the lever and holds it while cranking. Looking at the diagram, I think I have more than two wires going to the starter terminal. 3, maybe 4. I'll go check.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
The pump SEEMS to be pumping its brains out. When I bleed the system at the filter and pump, fuel shoots everywhere. It filled the filter glass in just a couple of seconds.

I've wondered more than once if maybe a piece of paper towel went down the inlet. I stuck a fine piece of stainless wire all the way to the end of the intake manifold, and didn't feel anything soft. Could've gone into a port I suppose. I might get to the point of pulling the manifold before long. I guess it should technically run without the manifold anyway, so I could keep troubleshooting.

The glow plugs are the same ones the tractor has been running great on for the last couple of years. They are NGK replacements and are working as they should. M.
 

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The only wires going to the engine are the shutoff solenoid and glow plugs. Sounds like both are working.

Never heard of craning the engine with the glow plugs out.

I would crack all 3 steel fuel lines loose at the injectors and crank it over until you get a good stream of fuel coming out of at least one line. Then tighten them all up, run the glow plug cycle and crank it over If if fires and shaks and rattles let it keep running as it's purging air. May do this for a minute or 2. Sometimes moving the throttle up and down will help speed it up.

If your not getting a good flow out the injector line your electric pump or filter, or they fuel line pickup screen in tank or injection pump (doubtful) are suspect.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
Will any of the safety switches allow the engine to turn over, but not start? I know if the hydro is not in neutral, or the brake is not depressed, the motor will not turn over at all. The seat has a jumper on it, or at least it did last time I looked.

Anybody know if the fuel pump regulates fuel pressure or if that happens in the pump?

Getting the intake manifold off doesn't look like it will be tooooo bad. I only see three small bolts, though one is behind the injector pump.

I guess I'll try that then look at replacing the fuel pump. That just seems like the place to start if I have to solve this by replacing parts.
 

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If it's turning over make sure the fuel shutoff solenoid is staying engaged. Might be worth putting you hand on it and pushing it to make sure it's going full travel.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I had all the lines off at the pump. I had fuel come out, but not a stream or anything. Just kind of spilled over the top of the outlets. I wouldn't have expected a lot of flow out of the pump. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I assumed delivery to the injectors would be in very small amounts.

I have not pulled the injectors, but when I pull the glow plugs, they are wet from cranking.
 

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I doubt you lost compresion or the injectors went bad in a month outside the tractor.

Do what I said with bleeding the injector lines at the injectors.

Also watch the shutoff solenoid make sure it's holding.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Mike I did check for full movement of the solenoid by pushing on it and watching while cranking. I think it is retracting fully and holding while cranking.

Forgot the mention that I checked the injector bypass line. It seemed to be clear. I heard that injectors can hydraulic lock it the bypass is not clear.

Yes. I'm grasping a straws. M.
 

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Mel,

Yes the engine will crank over if the brake switch, neutral switch and PTO switch(es) are in their proper states, and not crank if any one of these are not closed. But as you surmised, the engine ALSO needs the fuel shutoff solenoid to be actuated and stay actuated and that is independent from the cranking interlocks. The diagram I posted above shows how the seat switch needs to be closed for normal operation -- but there is a bypass of sorts provided by the Neutral Start Relay circuitry at wire A of the TDCM so you and start the tractor and idle it if the ground speed is firmly in the neutral slot AND the parking brake is set AND the PTO switches are all off. Sorry this does not show well in the wiring excerpts but take the one above along with this one below, and then read through the theory of operation of the fuel shutoff.
430 starting wiring and legend.jpg

430 fuel shutoff theory of oepration.jpg

...by the way, what is the serial number of your tractor as the early ones have some subtle differences...

Chuck
 

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It sounds like you are getting fuel to the engine, so let’s take a look at the electrical since this started after pulling the engine.

Are you getting 12V to the glow plugs? A simple a quick way to test this is; run a jumper wire from the positive terminal of the battery directly to the glow plug line.
If it starts you can start working backward, checking the connections, VR, glow plug module, etc...

Use the diagram Chuck posted.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Front PTO is off, not equipped with a rear PTO, brake is depressed, hydro in neutral, and the seat is jumped. Can't speak for the hydro lever under the right rear fender. It doesn't seem to do anything that I can tell. Motor turns over.

I've tested the glow plugs six ways to Sunday, including pulling them all out, re-wiring, and watching them all glow on top of the motor with the key switched on. They burn for about 15 seconds with the key in the 'on' or 'start' positions. It takes them about 4 seconds for all three to get good and bright.
 

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Bleed the steel fuel lines at the injectors and try to start then report back...
 

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Hi folks,

I've put nearly two hours on the meter testing and spinning the motor. Sometimes it smokes white smoke, sometimes gray, sometimes it doesn't smoke at all. Sometimes a cylinder or even two will hit, sometimes they wont. I don't see how, but could this be wiring thing? Maybe I wired the regulator back wrong. Could I have somehow affected the injection timing without knowing it? The solenoid on the left side of the motor works, but what does it do. Is there some secret safety switch in the thing that I'm not aware of?

Just some quick general diesel stuff here...

When it smokes white, that's atomized fuel that did not ignite during the compression stroke.
When that smoke turns grey, that's atomized fuel that "tried" to ignite during the compression stroke, but never really developed a flame front capable of propigating across the cylinder to burn all of the fuel.
When the smoke is black (rollin' coal), that's fuel that burned with an inadequate supply of oxygen.

Mechanical (and most other) diesels rely on the fuel system being full to operate the injectors. (Nozzles.... but I digress). Having air in the system can and will affect the actual time (relative to crankshaft rotation) when the fuel is injected.

Air and diesel fuel in a diesel fuel injector will affect the spray pattern of the fuel. Like turning the knob on a windex sprayer from stream to mist...


Given that couple of things... Here's my thought.

Diesel engines use the heat of compression for ignition. (With glow plug or other assistance in some cases). You have working glow plugs, and you have no reason to suspect that the compression became inadequate over such a (relatively) short inactive period. So it's pretty likely (no guarantee) that this engine could make a fire if it had something to burn.

You have intermittent smoke. That's a huge clue. I'd doubt highly that John Deere put in a safety device that made the engine run like crap by intermittently injecting fuel if you didn't follow the rules... They'd much more likely kill the starter for things that shouldn't be turned on during starting, and kill the engine all together for things that are dangerous. Having some smoke indicates that you have "some" fuel. So it's pretty likely (no guarantee) that the safety gods have been appeased and may operate the tractor.

You don't have black smoke AND you do have enough air flow through the engine to push white/gray smoke out of the tail pipe. When the governor (throttle lever) is set to slow idle (idle), but the tractor RPMs don't reach slow idle, the governor holds the fuel wide open anyhow. With those pieces of trivia, if the intake were blocked to the point of a no start... You'd be properly rollin' coal right in your garage. Maybe not jet black, maybe black leaning towards gray. If the pumps all worn out but serviceable, the compression is questionable but serviceable, and the starter is running slow, it might even go to a real light gray, but it would be solid, thick, and constant. PROVIDED of course that you have proper fuel being injected. So I'm going with "even if you did stuff a rag down the intake and forget about it, it's not restrictive enough to be causing a no start.

Of course there's seven hundred and eighty six permutations of what could be happened, raised to the power of the number of bolts you unscrewed during the recent repair, times the number of wires disconnedted and reconnected... But this really adds up to their being air in the fuel system. specifically the fuel pump (injection pump), fuel lines, fuel injectors, or some combination thereof.

I would do this. It sounds like there's a transfer pump/line bleed procedure that you've already done. I can't help you with that anyhow. At this point, you're down to the "high pressure fuel system". They can be a real bugger if the air volume inside them exceeds the pump chamber volume... Start with cracking all of the injector lines from the injectors only. Make sure the tube nut can release and engage smoothly leave all of them finger tight, then one flat more. No wrenches, that one flat should be free spinning. Crank the engine (within reason, watch the starter...) until fuel escapes the first injector. Immediately tighten that line nut only. Then crank some more, you'll see another injector line pick up... Then again... Clear steady fuel should come from every injector nut.


The difference between "In Theory" and "In Practice" is that "in theory" they'd both be the same. I'm sure you know how that goes. In theory, based on what you've described during this post, this is gonna solve the problem. In practice, this is gonna EITHER get the tractor to run, or it's going to verify that the high pressure fuel delivery system is full of fuel and devoid of air so that you (and this forum full of folks with more specific knowledge of this exact engine) can move on to further diagnostics. You may find that if you clear out just one injector, it'll actually pick up and run (poorly) on that one cylinder... That's fine, let it go. (If it's "violent, you probably might have aging motor mounts, but they take the full torque of the engine all day every day... This is nothing to them). Leave it to run, and tighten the other nuts as they start to show fluid. If it runs clean and smooth, great. If it runs but not right, then one at a time crack (just crack) each nut (one at a time), let them bleed for a few seconds, then snug them again.
 

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Just some quick general diesel stuff here...

When it smokes white, that's atomized fuel that did not ignite during the compression stroke.
When that smoke turns grey, that's atomized fuel that "tried" to ignite during the compression stroke, but never really developed a flame front capable of propigating across the cylinder to burn all of the fuel.
When the smoke is black (rollin' coal), that's fuel that burned with an inadequate supply of oxygen.

Mechanical (and most other) diesels rely on the fuel system being full to operate the injectors. (Nozzles.... but I digress). Having air in the system can and will affect the actual time (relative to crankshaft rotation) when the fuel is injected.

Air and diesel fuel in a diesel fuel injector will affect the spray pattern of the fuel. Like turning the knob on a windex sprayer from stream to mist...


Given that couple of things... Here's my thought.

Diesel engines use the heat of compression for ignition. (With glow plug or other assistance in some cases). You have working glow plugs, and you have no reason to suspect that the compression became inadequate over such a (relatively) short inactive period. So it's pretty likely (no guarantee) that this engine could make a fire if it had something to burn.

You have intermittent smoke. That's a huge clue. I'd doubt highly that John Deere put in a safety device that made the engine run like crap by intermittently injecting fuel if you didn't follow the rules... They'd much more likely kill the starter for things that shouldn't be turned on during starting, and kill the engine all together for things that are dangerous. Having some smoke indicates that you have "some" fuel. So it's pretty likely (no guarantee) that the safety gods have been appeased and may operate the tractor.

You don't have black smoke AND you do have enough air flow through the engine to push white/gray smoke out of the tail pipe. When the governor (throttle lever) is set to slow idle (idle), but the tractor RPMs don't reach slow idle, the governor holds the fuel wide open anyhow. With those pieces of trivia, if the intake were blocked to the point of a no start... You'd be properly rollin' coal right in your garage. Maybe not jet black, maybe black leaning towards gray. If the pumps all worn out but serviceable, the compression is questionable but serviceable, and the starter is running slow, it might even go to a real light gray, but it would be solid, thick, and constant. PROVIDED of course that you have proper fuel being injected. So I'm going with "even if you did stuff a rag down the intake and forget about it, it's not restrictive enough to be causing a no start.

Of course there's seven hundred and eighty six permutations of what could be happened, raised to the power of the number of bolts you unscrewed during the recent repair, times the number of wires disconnedted and reconnected... But this really adds up to their being air in the fuel system. specifically the fuel pump (injection pump), fuel lines, fuel injectors, or some combination thereof.

I would do this. It sounds like there's a transfer pump/line bleed procedure that you've already done. I can't help you with that anyhow. At this point, you're down to the "high pressure fuel system". They can be a real bugger if the air volume inside them exceeds the pump chamber volume... Start with cracking all of the injector lines from the injectors only. Make sure the tube nut can release and engage smoothly leave all of them finger tight, then one flat more. No wrenches, that one flat should be free spinning. Crank the engine (within reason, watch the starter...) until fuel escapes the first injector. Immediately tighten that line nut only. Then crank some more, you'll see another injector line pick up... Then again... Clear steady fuel should come from every injector nut.


The difference between "In Theory" and "In Practice" is that "in theory" they'd both be the same. I'm sure you know how that goes. In theory, based on what you've described during this post, this is gonna solve the problem. In practice, this is gonna EITHER get the tractor to run, or it's going to verify that the high pressure fuel delivery system is full of fuel and devoid of air so that you (and this forum full of folks with more specific knowledge of this exact engine) can move on to further diagnostics. You may find that if you clear out just one injector, it'll actually pick up and run (poorly) on that one cylinder... That's fine, let it go. (If it's "violent, you probably might have aging motor mounts, but they take the full torque of the engine all day every day... This is nothing to them). Leave it to run, and tighten the other nuts as they start to show fluid. If it runs clean and smooth, great. If it runs but not right, then one at a time crack (just crack) each nut (one at a time), let them bleed for a few seconds, then snug them again.
Thanks for the detailed response. Good knowledge


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