[ed_jake]

I have a 430 I bought a yr ago with 921 certified hours. It had been very badly misused and was running fine but was leaking hyd fluid all over. I went to work with replacing hoses and seals and used it some last summer for mowing and some work in the garden. When I was plowing last fall the Hydo began slipping.
I purchased and installed a hydro from a 420 with about 750 hrs on it. At that time I was only using it for light duty including some snow plowing and it worked fine except for the Hydo leaks I was not interesting in tackling such as the Spool Valve and the Water Pump. When quiet time hit my John Deere dealer in Mar I took it in for these to be repaired. While there the replaced most of the seals and I brought home a tractor that no longer leaked.
Saturday was the 1st day I actually put it to work with my tiller. As I used it the 3 pt lifted slow. I was concerned but it was the 1st time I had used the tiller and I thought it might be just that heavy.
Yesterday I began mowing for the 1st time this yr. Needless to say it was tough going, being about 6" tall and very wet. After about 3/4 of an acre I noticed that reverse was slow. About a 1/2 hour later the temp warning light came on. By then it was obvious I had a problem and was disappointed with the tractor. After checking for fluid leaks I let it run at a fast idle without a load and the temp came down. I went back to mowing, about a 1/2 hr later the light came back on as I was finishing.
I then checked the pressure at one of the front Hydo connections. I only had 250?? lbs. This morning I went out and started it and while it was still cold I found I had about 550 to 600 lbs at the same connection from yesterday.
If I understand the info I have read I suspect the implement relief Valve. I have found some info about shimming relief valves.
Am I on the correct track? Do I need something special to check this?
Is this something I can do myself? I have read about shims are they something or something I can manufacture.
I want my 430 to operate properly but I my Garden is just now getting dry enough to work and need to have my 430 if I am going to get this done.
Sorry for the length of this post.

 

[Highwayman1]

Ed,
You can do this yourself Shims are available for a really cheap price outside of Deere. The Pump is a Sauer Danfoss. In fact instead of shimming just buy new relief vlaves and cones and be done with it. One is on the top and one on the side. Email me and I can provide contact info the part numbers are on my phone and I'm not sure how to get them to post here.
Thanks
Michael
[email protected]

 

[trapperjohn]

ED, I agree with Michael, shimming the relief valves is a way to raise pressure. Yours are varying pressure so shimming them would only produce a higher varying pressure. They are varying because of a problem with the valve when they are hot, sticking or leaking internally. New ones are the answer.

 

[ed_jake]

Thanks Guys.
Mike you have mail requesting the information on the valves.
Ron thanks for the info from the 430 Tech Manual.
As I understand the issues it is either the Valves or a BIG internal problem.
Considering the cost of the valves from John Deere I am in the process of getting the testing done as the Tech Manual describes. When I see the pricing on the Valves from Mikes info I may just replace the valves.

 

[dfrankm5]

Don't want to hijack this thread guys, but I have a 430 as well and looking to replace the relief valves on the top of my hydro pump and the one on the side. I do not want to pay the prices John Deere is asking for these units. [the valve on the side is no longer available from Deere] If someone on this forum could provide me with the appropriate resource contact and/or compatible part numbers it would be greatly appreciated. email [email protected]

 

[jw332]

Hello
While working on the 430
You can pull just the oil filter and see if there is anything bad going on there.
Also check rubber the supply line from the trans.This can suck air and not leak
What kind of Hydro oil was placed in the machine ?
And make sure the fill cap is the right kind with the vent in it.and the vent is clear
Good luck - JW

 

[trapperjohn]

David, There have been several posts about rebuilding those valves. If they are not available, I would consider that as an option. As I recall you can cut the rolled top off in a lathe, replace the o rings and spot or tig weld them back together. I remember one post had picture of the process.

 

[ed_jake]

David. You are NOT hijacking anything if Mike has a supplier we can access I have been thinking it needs to be posted for everybody. I am sure I'm not the only one with this issue. These mowers are 30 yrs old. James good review of the basics. This time I have done all the above. I'm waiting for the info on the new valves. A rebuild may be the way to go. I reviewed that process. I will have a problem with the machine work.

Thanks

 

[ed_jake]

Ron. I am sorry I did not acknowledge your post. It was VERY important to the issue. If all I do is shim I am just taking the chance making the issue worse. After I read your post and thought about it I canceled the shims I had ordered.

 

[trapperjohn]

Ed & David, We are all here to learn and help, its all good. I did find a site showing the rebuild process and if you Google (Cub Cadet FAQ) you will get a list of 97 questions. Look at 33A & 33B. Very interesting.

 

[pa88316]

I followed the directions on the cub site to rebuild my freewheeling valves, and so far so good....i did use a lathe to cut the crimped edge, but if you were careful i think it could be done in a vice with a dremel....its a very small amount of material that comes off. I bought my o rings in a big kit from harbor freight for like 6$ or so, and it went very smoothly. I recomend it highly over buying new valves.

 

[drew]

Here's the link, I'll probably need it later...

http://cubfaq.com/questions.html

 

[ed_jake]

Wow I am getting help like I never expected.
Some of it led me to looking for help elsewhere. I went into the Technical FAQ section of WFM and there is a post there named "Hydrostatic Transmissions Check Valves" from 2006
In that post I found the phone number for LJ Fluid Power @ Delton MI.
I called the number and hit PAY DIRT big time.
I spoke to Charlie and he not only has parts for our Hydro's but he understands the application.
He told me my problem was either a blockage in my cooler line, the Implement release valve or a big problem internally in the Hydro.
I was able to order the parts for the Impl. Relief Valve and the Charge Pump Relief valves with shims, for less than $30.00. He also went into the problems with the seats for these valves and how it repair them.

They do still carry the pressure release valves also.
In case anyone else needs something their Phone # is: 269-623-4150.
Should someone want or need it they rebuild these Hydro's as well. Charlie said the price could vary depending on the problem but cost is usually between $600.00 and $950.00.
Now it's going to be interesting to see if this is my problem. I am going to try working by way through the 1st 2 possibilities and if it turns out to be #3 call Bob Colebank.
Have to see how I do this weekend.

 

[knottyrope]

you can buy a used hydro on eaby for 250 or ask in wanted section and some one here might have one for sale

 

[trapperjohn]

M.Drew, Just to be clear, on your link the rebuild is 55 & 55A.

 

[dfrankm5]

Ed Dorsett, Thanks so much for providing the contact information for L.J. Fluid Power. I called and spoke to Charlie and acquired what I needed for my hydro-transmission in my 430. Charlie was a great help. Good to now have a contact source I can put in my list of vendors for future assistance. Thanks again!

 

[ed_jake]

David, You are very welcome.
Now the update and of course the request for more help!
I received the Valves and shims from LJ Fluidpower. ($47.00 including postage for the Charge Pump and Impl. Valves with a package of shims)
I removed the Impl. valve and there was definitely wear showing. I installed it using the same shims. Charlie had told me the seat for the valve is part of the Hydro casting and the proper procedure is to disassemble the Hydro and dress the seat with a drill. I decided I would pass on this because of time problems and I was concerned if I attempted to dress the seat while the Hydro was in the tractor I would get shavings into the Hydro. I also replaced the charge pump valve at this time. It did not show any amount of wear but for less than $4.00 I decided why not.
John Deere shows testing the pressure right at the Hydro but I am short on fittings so I am getting my readings off the Quick Coupler on the front.
With the new Valve in I had about 600 Lbs. cold. This is an improvement. I then took the tractor out and used it for about an hour. I then tested it again and my Pressure was between 420 & 430 lbs. When I had the initial problem the reading warm was below 300 lbs. The Tech manual calls for 800 lbs. warm.
It is obviously time for shims.
I called Charlie and he said he did not know enough about the application to tell me if the pressure at the front couplers should 800 lbs. Can someone help me? Will I destroy anything if I shim to get the 800 Lbs. warm reading at the front coupler?

 

[jameszmcnelley]

hi ED, the 430 manual states imp. relief pres. at 850-975psi warm, fast idle. implement relief pres. measured at the pump should measure the same at the couplers when you stroke the corresponding spool fully and hold. I would not shim the pres. beyond 1000psi. hope that answers your last question.

charge pres. reading at the pump 90-180psi warm, slow idle.
adding shims at this point may just be masking the real problem. I have read your post, very carefully, and from the beginning I have had the same conclusion I come to now. even allowing for the relatively low hours. every thing is pointing toward internal leakage caused by excessive wear. this would explain the huge drop in pres. readings once unit is warm. as you stated also your cold pres. readings are still low also after the check valve work.
at this point you need to address that imp. valve seat first. in order to rule that out as the sorce of your low readings.

I don't know the procedure for this, on this unit. you are right not to do it in a way as to contaminate the syst.
what is your current CHARGE pres. reading? at cold idle and warm idle would help me out if you could get the fittings you need? if those readings are low then the problem is there. that can and will effect the whole syst. not trying to be a smart a--, here but when trouble shooting a hyd. problem such as this, we need to start at the head, not the tail. but try shimming for now and let me know what happens. I will help you all that I can. later, JZM

 

[dfrankm5]

Ed, I am learning just like you. Charlie did explain to me if I was not having problems with any attachments the charge pump valve or implement valve to leave them alone. I can understand now hearing what you have just expressed. I have to find a resource for the pressure gauge and appropriate fittings as I would like to do these things myself as opposed to taking it to John Deere to be repaired. I believe James Mcnelley can provide sound guidance.

 

[ed_jake]

Sorry for the delay in responding to those who have provided knowledge and tips to me.
I have been away from this issue do to some family demands on my time and a bum back.
James I agree with you completely. Yesterday I patched together the pieces I need to properly test the charge pump pressure. If I have an issue there my plans are to replace the filter and retest. From there I will be moving to shimming the charge pump before I move to the Implement Valve. No Short Cuts seems to be the best way to do this.
I will update this, hopefully someone else will learn something as I fumble thru this issue.
Maybe foolishly I remain committed to getting this 430 in shape.