Picked up a 1987 318 with the P218G engine in 1999 and installed the starter improvement kit shortly after which cured the starter engagement problems it had at the time. Lately it takes 2-3 attempts for the starter to engage just like it did before I installed the kit. Has anyone ever had the kit go bad on them? Is there any way to test the little module? The battery is good and the connections are clean but that's as far as I've gone with my trouble shooting so far.
Can 318 P218G starter improvement kit go bad?
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Eric, its a standard accessory relay not a module, and yes they do go bad, I replaced mine because I installed it with the plug side up and water got in and corroded it, I replaced it for $4 at Auto Zone, and inverted it afterwards to keep moisture out.
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Eric,
Welcome to the WFM forums!
The starter improvement kit allows the high current needed to operate the solenoid shift starter on the P series engines to come directly from the battery through the relay contacts, rather than passing through a series of PTO and other safety switches and through the key switch contacts twice...
If you were having starting issues that were addressed by the starter improvement kit and you did not also replace the key switch at that same time...replace the key switch now. It had questionable contacts then and can only be worse now. The relay in the improvement kit may not be "bad", just not getting the 'drive' from the above key switch to its coil.
Chuck
Welcome to the WFM forums!
The starter improvement kit allows the high current needed to operate the solenoid shift starter on the P series engines to come directly from the battery through the relay contacts, rather than passing through a series of PTO and other safety switches and through the key switch contacts twice...
If you were having starting issues that were addressed by the starter improvement kit and you did not also replace the key switch at that same time...replace the key switch now. It had questionable contacts then and can only be worse now. The relay in the improvement kit may not be "bad", just not getting the 'drive' from the above key switch to its coil.
Chuck
Thanks for the suggestions Mick and Chuck. The key switch has never been changed since I've owned it so its probably time for a new one. I'll pull that relay out to check for corrosion but I would be surprised if it is since I've never washed the tractor (air hose only to blow the dust out) and it lives indoors out of the rain.
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Eric, my relay got moisture in it from snow removal duties, like you I would never leave my equipment out in the elements, and yes, welcome to the forum, the members are a wealth of information on the upkeep of these fine machines,
Thanks Mick, my 318 has never been in the snow but I suppose its possible condensation from humidity and the heating/cooling of the engine has worked its way into to the relay.
Or maybe oily crud? The relay is near the dipstick tube and it used to leak a little bit before I replaced the O-ring a few years ago.
Eric
Or maybe oily crud? The relay is near the dipstick tube and it used to leak a little bit before I replaced the O-ring a few years ago.
Eric
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343 Posts
Eric, as Chuck describes your key switch could be a problem, contacts being dirty, I have been successful on one occasion in carefully dismantling a key switch and cleaning the contacts and reassembling it on another model JD, It was faulty so I had nothing to lose by taking it apart, and it works good now, just a thought. Chuck is a JD guru, his advice is well respected, so definitely consider it.
Mick
Mick
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Hello Eric
Chuck has Given some very good Insight here he is Very Knowledgeable as many other member's of this forum. I had to change out the Key switch when I was building my Son in law's 1991 John Deere 316. It would only work if you wiggled the plug in the back of the switch. It now work's fine but we are getting a clicking noise from the starter when the Key is turned to start I feel as though it may be the starter solenoid. I will change it this winter when the Tractor is finished with it's mowing season. I will also add the starter Improvement kit when we Place the engine back in the tractor before next spring. Regards, Kurt
Chuck has Given some very good Insight here he is Very Knowledgeable as many other member's of this forum. I had to change out the Key switch when I was building my Son in law's 1991 John Deere 316. It would only work if you wiggled the plug in the back of the switch. It now work's fine but we are getting a clicking noise from the starter when the Key is turned to start I feel as though it may be the starter solenoid. I will change it this winter when the Tractor is finished with it's mowing season. I will also add the starter Improvement kit when we Place the engine back in the tractor before next spring. Regards, Kurt
Received the new key switch from Ebay on Friday and it was as described, new and in the original sealed JD blister packaging. Pulled the old switch out of the 318 and found a lot of corrosion on it and the terminals so I cleaned the wire harness connectors and installed the new switch. While I was at it I pulled the 2 fuse holders apart and was surprised to find rust in them and I also cleaned the wire harness ground wire attachment to the body since it was pretty rusty.
Hoping I had the starting problem resolved I turned the switch and as before the starter spun but didn't fully engage the flywheel. The 2nd time I tried it fired right up which sometimes happened before the switch was replaced but often took 3 tries. Throughout the rest of the day it would always start right up so I thought it was fixed.
The next day with a cold engine, 1st try, just a spinning starter with no engagement, 2nd try it starts right up and does so the rest of the day.
The key switch replacement is an improvement since before that it always took 2 to 3 tries to get the starter to engage hot or cold. Haven't replaced the improvement relay yet but will do so before replacing the starter. Any other ideas?
Hoping I had the starting problem resolved I turned the switch and as before the starter spun but didn't fully engage the flywheel. The 2nd time I tried it fired right up which sometimes happened before the switch was replaced but often took 3 tries. Throughout the rest of the day it would always start right up so I thought it was fixed.
The next day with a cold engine, 1st try, just a spinning starter with no engagement, 2nd try it starts right up and does so the rest of the day.
The key switch replacement is an improvement since before that it always took 2 to 3 tries to get the starter to engage hot or cold. Haven't replaced the improvement relay yet but will do so before replacing the starter. Any other ideas?
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remove battery terminals and clean them with a knife until shiny, you cant see lead corrosion
then see if it starts better
then see if it starts better
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Eric check that the starter drive is clean, dirt could be causing it to engage erratically, brake clean is a good product to remove built up crud if that is its problem, sounds like a engagement issue.
Basic check for electricals is >9 volts at the solenoid terminal when trying to start.
Starter spinning but not engaging is a mechanical problem with the starter drive and/or ring gear.
The switch in the solenoid does not close until the end of the shifter plunger travel.
Hank
Starter spinning but not engaging is a mechanical problem with the starter drive and/or ring gear.
The switch in the solenoid does not close until the end of the shifter plunger travel.
Hank
I finally got around to pulling the purple wire off the starter solenoid to check the starter improvement relay (not easy with big hands!). I can hear the relay click when turning the key switch and the voltage to the purple wire is 12.78, same as the starter's battery cable. Unless I'm not thinking things through correctly it would seem that the relay is OK and the solenoid/starter are getting the correct voltage when the key switch is turned.
As noted by the other members above I'm thinking its an engagement issue so it looks like I will probably have to pull the engine to get a good look at the starter and solenoid.
One thing of note though is when I pulled the solenoid wire it seemed to come off way to easy as if it wasn't fully seated on the spade. It wasn't corroded or very dirty but I cleaned it anyway and pushed it on tight which was even more difficult with my big hands!
After putting everything back together I hit the starter and it fired right up, did it several more times, no problems. Its possible that solenoid wire was the problem but I won't know until I've tried it a few times on a cold engine.
As noted by the other members above I'm thinking its an engagement issue so it looks like I will probably have to pull the engine to get a good look at the starter and solenoid.
One thing of note though is when I pulled the solenoid wire it seemed to come off way to easy as if it wasn't fully seated on the spade. It wasn't corroded or very dirty but I cleaned it anyway and pushed it on tight which was even more difficult with my big hands!
After putting everything back together I hit the starter and it fired right up, did it several more times, no problems. Its possible that solenoid wire was the problem but I won't know until I've tried it a few times on a cold engine.
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