The past few times mowing my power steering seems to go out at times then come back to normal.I have not noticed any difference in performance of transmission when this happens.I have checked fluid level hot,cold and it is right at correct level.Any ideas out there?
Design life of 200 Series tractors
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200 Posts
Just wondering if the fluid in transaxle could be really old. Has transaxle fluid and filter been changed in last 200 hours? Was low viscosity Hygard used? If so, it's probably not that. Assume that the motor was running at full throttle? On mine power steering sometimes acts a little reluctant at really low engine speeds and I would consider that normal.
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When you say it goes out do you mean it steers but becomes hard to turn the wheel or does the wheel turn freely and the front wheels do not turn?
Yes when the power steering goes out the wheel still turns it is just stiff like turning with no power steering. Do you suggest that the hydro system be flushed and new oil and filter installed. When you say it can be a very expensive around how much?
Tim
behind the charge pump there is the hydro, in there there are brass washplates that get pitted up or scrathed up cause of dirt or metal filings
and you lose preasure. then you also got the round pistons which get worn and ovaled shaped and oil gets by them also. I've worked on 2 of these and the parts were over $2000 both cases I found different rearends and put them in.
the hydro system is set up tp starve the steering for oil when the hydro needs it. the two I did the steering worked good till oil got warmed up then would get hard to turn
behind the charge pump there is the hydro, in there there are brass washplates that get pitted up or scrathed up cause of dirt or metal filings
and you lose preasure. then you also got the round pistons which get worn and ovaled shaped and oil gets by them also. I've worked on 2 of these and the parts were over $2000 both cases I found different rearends and put them in.
the hydro system is set up tp starve the steering for oil when the hydro needs it. the two I did the steering worked good till oil got warmed up then would get hard to turn
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Tim, There could be two issues causing this. On is as Steve says. There is a charge pump that supplies make-up oil to the hydrostat drive and to the power steering and deck lift/aux spool valve. The other issue could be a stuck steering valve.A pressure/flow test of the charge pump will tell you if the charge pump is working properly. It should be at about 3.5 gpm and 1000 psi.The charge pump could be wearing out and not generating enough flow/pressure or the hydrostat could be getting worn and stealing too much oil so the steering does not get it. These failures usually are not intermitant but do worsen as the oil warms up. If the charge pump is working correctly then the steering valve is probably sticking. Hope for the later - steering issues are much less to repair than charge pump/hydrostat issues. A simple test you could due yourself is when the steering issue occurs try lifting the deck. If it is a charge pump issue the deck should not lift. If the deck lifts - the steering valve is stuck internally. It has a power beyond port that send inlet oil to the spool valve when the steering wheel is not being turned. The proper way to check this would be to have someone with pressure and flow measuring equipment determine the flow and pressure being put out by the charge pump.
Somebody please move this if it would be better answered on another forum.
Does anybody have info regarding expected useful design life (or actual hours seen) for the 200 Series, either from experience or something JD published at the time? I've seen a lot for the hydrostats, I assume because they have hourmeters unlike most 200 Series, but almost nothing about the older tractors. Thanks!
Does anybody have info regarding expected useful design life (or actual hours seen) for the 200 Series, either from experience or something JD published at the time? I've seen a lot for the hydrostats, I assume because they have hourmeters unlike most 200 Series, but almost nothing about the older tractors. Thanks!
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1,893 Posts
I don't think you can stop them, unless it burns up.
Unlike a car/truck in the salt belt, there isn't anything to destroy it.
I have replaced quite a few components on both my 212's. There isn't anything wrong with the frame and sheet metal. I doubt that will ever wear out.
I have never rebuilt the tranny nor the steering gear. I suppose if that would go south, I'd have to, but other than that, just the engine and variator has been replaced along with the common wear items like belts, tires, tie rod ends etc.
I think more hydro tractors are scrapped due to a worn or failed engine in conjunction with a worn and failed hydro. That would cost quite a bit of $ to bring back to life.
Unlike a car/truck in the salt belt, there isn't anything to destroy it.
I have replaced quite a few components on both my 212's. There isn't anything wrong with the frame and sheet metal. I doubt that will ever wear out.
I have never rebuilt the tranny nor the steering gear. I suppose if that would go south, I'd have to, but other than that, just the engine and variator has been replaced along with the common wear items like belts, tires, tie rod ends etc.
I think more hydro tractors are scrapped due to a worn or failed engine in conjunction with a worn and failed hydro. That would cost quite a bit of $ to bring back to life.
Nothing as a whole really wears out if you replace the wear parts. The biggest reason vehicles wear out is from neglect of service, or like Scott said, salt causing cancer to the body and mainframe.
All I know is I see thousands of very nice garden tractors that are over 40 years old. Yes , they may have been repainted and worked over but there are quite a few out there that haven't had much work done to them at all. My 35 year old JD214 is mostly original except the tires and it runs and drives nicely.
All I know is I see thousands of very nice garden tractors that are over 40 years old. Yes , they may have been repainted and worked over but there are quite a few out there that haven't had much work done to them at all. My 35 year old JD214 is mostly original except the tires and it runs and drives nicely.
You may think this is goofy , but if kept out of the elements , these tractors are kind of like army tanks . There are '40s vintage Sherman tanks in South/Central America that have been kept clean & repainted & look brand new . The armored hulls , turrets etc. don't "wear out" . The mechanical wear parts have to be replaced when worn . I think at this point they are having trouble finding replacement mechanical parts for them .
However , we aren't pushing around 30 tons with antiquated , strained engines/transmissions , and from what I've seen , these tractors could last a VERY long time , IF properly maintained & operated .
On the gear drives , there are 3 main mechanical components that can suffer abuse/neglect .
1 . The engine . With regular tune-ups AND oil changes , it is not out of the question to get 2500 hrs out of a K-Series Kohler . I would honestly , conservatively guess my '74 112 is used only 50 hours a year . But it's 40 YEARS OLD ! That's 2000 hrs ! Original short block ! I change the oil once a year & usually burn 1/2 a quart in between .
2 . The transaxle . From what I understand , by FAR the most common reason for failure is attempting to shift gears while moving & the secondary pulley is still spinning , ie: grinding the gears . My brother & I did that , along with nephews & nieces , & it is going to need an overhaul sometime soon..........also , AFTER 40 YEARS !
3 . The variator . My Dad took his tractor to a small engine , shade tree mechanic for tune-ups , belt changes , etc . He was a very nice older gentleman , but he didn't know how to adjust the variator . It went unadjusted for probably 25 years & wore unevenly & suffered resulting corrosion . If it had been kept properly adjusted I have little doubt it would be completely functional today .
However , we aren't pushing around 30 tons with antiquated , strained engines/transmissions , and from what I've seen , these tractors could last a VERY long time , IF properly maintained & operated .
On the gear drives , there are 3 main mechanical components that can suffer abuse/neglect .
1 . The engine . With regular tune-ups AND oil changes , it is not out of the question to get 2500 hrs out of a K-Series Kohler . I would honestly , conservatively guess my '74 112 is used only 50 hours a year . But it's 40 YEARS OLD ! That's 2000 hrs ! Original short block ! I change the oil once a year & usually burn 1/2 a quart in between .
2 . The transaxle . From what I understand , by FAR the most common reason for failure is attempting to shift gears while moving & the secondary pulley is still spinning , ie: grinding the gears . My brother & I did that , along with nephews & nieces , & it is going to need an overhaul sometime soon..........also , AFTER 40 YEARS !
3 . The variator . My Dad took his tractor to a small engine , shade tree mechanic for tune-ups , belt changes , etc . He was a very nice older gentleman , but he didn't know how to adjust the variator . It went unadjusted for probably 25 years & wore unevenly & suffered resulting corrosion . If it had been kept properly adjusted I have little doubt it would be completely functional today .
I posed the question as I tried to estimate how many hours my 34-year-old 216 actually has been used. I eventually came up with 900-1100 hours, which seems like a lot in small engine/garden tractor terms. I know my father kept it maintained and repaired at the same dealer which we took our farm tractors to, so I was glad to hear Dave suggest that a couple thousand engine hours was not unrealistic if taken care of. That means I could maybe see another 34 years mowing my 1/3 acre lawn (yes, I'm tractor-rich and lawn-poor).
I heartily agree with the "built like a tank" commenters. I see lighter and less durable metal parts on modern cars, not to mention low to middle-of-the-line lawn equipment, than Deere put into these tractors. OTOH, a 216 cost what a good used car did in 1980, so these tractors do represent the opposite of today's disposable "durable" goods design philosophy. It's great to have the opportunity to work on one of my own.
I heartily agree with the "built like a tank" commenters. I see lighter and less durable metal parts on modern cars, not to mention low to middle-of-the-line lawn equipment, than Deere put into these tractors. OTOH, a 216 cost what a good used car did in 1980, so these tractors do represent the opposite of today's disposable "durable" goods design philosophy. It's great to have the opportunity to work on one of my own.
when Deere made the 110 and 200 series the ads stated build for a life time
the new one day maybe 10 years - if taken care of
my 212 has a hour meter on it from new and it has 2605 hours on it and it is my main garden tractor for blowing snow and tilling and the head has now been off
my 214 for mowing and pushing snow and I not not know how many hours are on it - but I think maybe around 1500 hours
the new one day maybe 10 years - if taken care of
my 212 has a hour meter on it from new and it has 2605 hours on it and it is my main garden tractor for blowing snow and tilling and the head has now been off
my 214 for mowing and pushing snow and I not not know how many hours are on it - but I think maybe around 1500 hours
Here's a pic of the hourmeter on my 214 just after a pretty complete mechanical restoration only without transaxle work. It shows 4422. As far as I know from the PO it is correct. The thing was pretty worn out however and I have another transaxle to drop in when this one gives up the ghost.
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Thanks, guys, it's encouraging to see some long-lived examples.
On my last visit to the local small engine shop, I saw a poster listing government-defined warranty periods for new small engine emissions equipment. The highest category was Commercial=300 hours! Even if the emissions stuff lasted 3x that long, it might be worn out in a summer.
"build for a life time"
Back then lifetime meant THE OWNER'S lifetime. Now it means the tractor's lifetime!
On my last visit to the local small engine shop, I saw a poster listing government-defined warranty periods for new small engine emissions equipment. The highest category was Commercial=300 hours! Even if the emissions stuff lasted 3x that long, it might be worn out in a summer.
"build for a life time"
Back then lifetime meant THE OWNER'S lifetime. Now it means the tractor's lifetime!
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14 Posts
I've said before my 70' 110 is on its 4th k181 and that's with reg mait. Now put into perspective, it mowed a hillside 2 acre cemetary for 10+ years along with a 2+ acre hill side yard until the early 2000's when it was replaced. My grandfather gave it to me and I'm restoring it because needless to say it was rough (but still functional). It is well worn but it is sporting original gears in the trans (springs and seals have been replaced a lot) and non opened steering gear (is loose though). Now I can't even fathom the hours this has seen but once it gets put back together I can see it going another 40 years easy.
I didn't think anyone would believe me but after finding Gofastgarrages site on here and reading about one of his K series engines never been cracked open I can say I have no problem believing. I am the original owner of my 77 210. It has not been overhauled and the only thing that has been replaced is the voltage regulator. The oil has been change regularly and the filters. But no major engine work of any kind. It has always been stored in a garage or shed and sports the original paint. I can see this tractor out lasting me. My father bought this tractor for me when I was still in high school. One of the ways I sold him on the John Deere was telling him that they run so long. I wasn't lying or even over exaggerating cause who knows how long they really last.
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