[cmitcham]

i got the 430 from hades (430 from hades) running once a couple weeks ago, but couldn't get it started again. i gave up and let my dealer look at it, and his bad news was that it needs an injector pump. $900 new, but he said there's no reason to fear a $600 rebuilt one. but he says there are only about 6 places deere certifies to rebuild them, one of them here in michigan.

now my dealer is great, and never leads me wrong, but what is so complicated about rebuilding the thing? does anyone have experiences in this area, and maybe any other alternatives to consider?

thanks in advance.

 

[mikeduwe]

I have not heard of these pumps going bad in the garden tractors, so I would find out why he thinks it needs to be rebuilt/replaced.

Did they do a pressure test on it, or any other testing?

I think the problem with rebuilding it yourself is that only certified repair shops can buy the parts, not a guy like us.

 

[steveh]

Federal regulations require all diesel injection pumps be repaired by a certified diesel repair shop due to air emission standards. Injection pump parts are not available to the general public. Even your dealer is probably not licensed to work on them. Your options are limited to the ones your dealer gave you. As Mike said, why do they think the IP needs to be replaced? Those pumps are extremely reliable in normal operation but they do occasionally go bad usually from contaminated fuel. I assume they know what they are talking about but I would ask them what tests they performed.

 

[cmitcham]

thanks for the feedback.

my dealer did agree that they rarely go bad, and when they do, it is very gradual. that is why twice before i gave up, his free advice was that i hadn't bled the system enough.

but after having the machine, he said there wasn't enough pressure out of the pump. i don't know what he measured it with, maybe he just watched it spit out, but like i said, i trust him.

thanks again.

 

[steveh]

You might ask your dealer if his diesel shop will rebuild your pump. The diesel shop we use in Richmond VA. quoted me a price of around $300 to rebuild a Yanmar pump. Maybe they can get a similar price quote for rebuilding your pump. But be advised that you need to let your dealer remove and reinstall the pump because it will need to be retimed when it goes back in and that timing procedure is a challenge for even a professional mechanic.

 

[cmitcham]

congratulations, you won the item.

guess what i found on ebay tonight!!!

i need every weekendfreedommachines finger crossed, especially with what steve says above.

 

[mikeduwe]

Those that put the traction relief valves for loader on there 425/445/455, have you ever moldboard plowed? Have any problems with the wheels stopping spinning in hard ground?

Here is one pulling and it stopped in its tracks way before it lost power or traction:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZWeepnoVmY

 

[aquist06]

I had the relief valve in my X728 and never had a problem with the wheels stopping, and it was the hydraulic AWD as well.

 

[mikeduwe]

Getting close to having enough saved up for a 3pt for my 455, so this spring I should be able to find out for myself.

Someone I was talking to said if they had to stop mid furrow and start off again the pedal seemed really stiff.

 

[aquist06]

I noticed that with my X series, it seemed there was resistance to the pedal, but it always worked well. My 425 without the relief valve was very stiff as well pulling a plow.

 

[dlnw98]

You won't have a problem, Mike. I have had my 40 loader on three different tractors now- a 425, 445 & present 455. Relief valve was installed in all three according to spec, and all three tractors plowed beautifully.

I pulled the sled at Montrose this past Oct, and dragged the engine RPM's down to a couple of revolutions short of killing it. Never was there any pretense of the valve blowing off or bypassing.

In practical application, this is a valve for very low speed, high torque applications on the final drive. Plowing, even starting out in a furrow, does not present that kind of resistance to the final drive. Pushing into a pile of gravel on a concrete driveway with 700 lbs of weight on the rear of the tractor does- I've done it and felt the valve blow off. All forward motion stopped instantly...

(Message edited by dlnw98 on January 25, 2015)

 

[73140h3232]

something had to have been wrong with that tractors innerds MIKE
I plowed with my 455 a lot and in lock up i could trow clods of dirt or mud, and even burn the hard surface and never just stopped, but i did not have a loader relief valve either.

 

[dlnw98]

Scott,

This is a completely different conversation if you didn't have the relief valve installed.

 

[flymo]

Scott, your post illustrates why the loader relief valve is needed in the first place.

With 700 pounds of loader and 500+ pounds of weights installed, if the tractor's forward motion is halted, it blows the transaxle. Without all that weight, the wheels just spin before the force fed back to the transaxle is enough to damage it.

Tim

 

[mikeduwe]

What actually mechanically fails in the transmission?

I cant see gears shattering, or the case cracking, so I'm guessing something gets messed up in the swash plate plungers?

 

[73140h3232]

I should have mentioned, I had a loader on my 455, I had 120 pounds of fluid in each rear tire, I am 265 pounds, I had 3 suitcase weights on front of my tractor, I plowed with a 12 inch one bottom, oh and I did not take the loader relief valve out to go plow. Sorry if I am in the wrong conversation, I was just not thorough enough in my hasty reply.

 

[73140h3232]

My first post should have read
I did not have the loader relief valve out either

 

[dlnw98]

Hey Mike,

Actually, it usually is in the final drive- the stuff you didn't expect to break that you listed in your post. The pump and output gear on the pump usually aren't what breaks.

I've either seen or heard of splines stripped off of axle shafts, broken gears and cracked cases. And, most of the time, it happened on a 455. Just a theory, but the torque of the Diesel, maybe?

This is a confusing valve for a lot of people. Why do I need it with a 40 Loader?

Part of understanding the significance of this valve is is to realize how torque is developed. In order to create torque, there has to be resistance. No resistance, and no torque- think of a loose nut spinning down the threaded shaft of a bolt with a wrench. The wrench is rotating the nut, but no effective amount of torque is required because there is no resistance.

The opposite is true- if that same nut is welded to the threaded shaft, it is now capable of providing an infinite amount of resistance to a force applied to it because it can't spin. Of course, we all know at some critical point the bolt will break- which is the maximum amount of torque applied before it happened.

Talking tractors, that "spinning nut" is your rear tires on ice. Very little resistance, and very little actual torque being applied to the final drive.

Put the same tractor on dry concrete, heavily weighted and up against an object or pile that won't move, and you now have a situation where the rear tires can't turn. You now have a "welded nut" scenario, tractor-wise. Under this situation, the pump can build enough pressure (torque) against the resistance (excessive traction) to break something in the rear end. The relief valve, only installed in the FORWARD hydraulic circuit, allows the pressure to blow off at a critical point just before enough torque is developed to make awful, very expensive noises from below your posterior...

In Scott's case, the amount of resistance developed was never high enough to necessitate the valve blowing off. The tires broke free first.

Running a 40 loader on a 4X5 series tractor without the relief valve installed is a really, really bad idea. If you use the loader hard enough, you will grenade the transaxle at some point.

(Message edited by dlnw98 on January 27, 2015)

 

[username]

Why don't they require the valve while using the front blade?

 

[dlnw98]

Because with a front blade, Deere doesn't specify that 750 lbs of ballast be added to the rear of the tractor like they do when using a 40 loader. In theory, the rear tires should break free and spin before any damage is done while using a front blade...