[mtrosclair]

I also had posted on the main forum, but I thought a thread on it may be apropos. I tried the search and did not have any luck so here it goes. The last week or so when I start my 322 I get what feels like a slight miss and I get smoke. after running a minute or so it clears up and runs like a champ. Today I pulled the plugs and it looked like water had collected around the boots and rusted the plugs. So I cleaned all that up and pulled the plugs. The front and rear cylinder are sooty, but not abnormal for a carbed engine. The center plug was clean, really clean. It worries me cause it looks like a plug would look with a head gasket leak although no other evidence of a head gasket leak exists. Oil is clean and clear coolant it to and the level does not change. I am going to put new plugs in it this week and see what happens. Thoughts?

update: I ran it at wot for about 10 minutes and then pulled the plugs, The center looked wet but I am not sure what with, its not oil and it does not smell like fuel or coolant. Thoughts.

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

I posted to your original post.
As far as the wet stuff on the center plug, any moisture has to be one of those liquids you mentioned. What else could it be?

 

[mtrosclair]

Assuming it is one of those fluids, what would be the most likely cause for entry in the combustion chamber? Coolant would tend to indicate head gasket, but there are no bubbles in the coolant and it is nice and clean. Oil would have to make it by the rings or a valve seal, and fuel can only come from one place. I hope maybe its just fuel and the new plugs will take care of it. I do run marvel mystery oil in my fuel, I have never had a problem with it before but you never know. If it is a head gasket could I just put some ginger pellets in there or will the head gasket need to be changed. It runs fine otherwise, and that seems like an imposing job.

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

Ginger Pellets? Naw Man, do it right and replace the gasket but only after all other possibilities are eliminated. Get new plugs and boot grease and make sure your wiring is good before doing more major remedies. Loose the Marval mystery oil for a while, that may be part of it. Keep us posted.

 

[dr_evil]

Maurice - There are test kits you can buy at auto parts stores that test coolant for traces of carbon monoxide gas. A leaking head gasket would put traces of CO into the coolant as well as possibly coolant into the center cylinder. Not sure a place like AutoZone or O'Reilly would have them but they may.

Other possible tests to run are compression test, & leak-down test.

I'm not familiar with the engine in a 322 but assume it's not equipped with cylinder liners, either wet or dry, normally referred to as Parent Bore, pistons run on the block casting, so no chance of liner o-rings leaking.

Has the engine been over-heated? Typical cause of leaking head gasket, or possibly cracked head since it's the center cylinder that appears to have coolant leaking into it and they run hotter than the outside cylinders.

The real cause will probably be temperature dependent at this stage, only visible at hot or cold temps, seldom both, until the problem gets worse, if there is a problem.

The water & corrosion around the outside of the plugs & boots could be the cause of the misfire. I'd install new plugs as you plan, keep the plugs & boots clean & dry, use dialectric grease as JDF says. Make sure the choke completely opens so the engine doesn't run rich, that the air filter is relatively clean, no restriction.

Water cooled engines made for industrial applications tend to have the carbs adjusted richer to avoid extremely high exh. gas temps under load, which means they tend to run rich at low loads and may foul plugs. It's always good to work them occasionally, "Blow the COBS out of them" as we used to say. The old gas farm tractors I used to run ALWAYS seemed to run their best after the first day of spring fieldwork where they were running hard for hours after a winter's worth of chores where they sat around idling.

 

[mtrosclair]

To my knowledge it has never been overheated, and there is no evidence that it has. But you never know i have only had it for about 30 hours out of 390 total.

 

[jason_w_hangartner]

Maybe that cylinder is not firing and it is fuel and oil mist on it. Have you checked for spark and compression in all three cylinders? Sometimes the coils or pulsars go bad on one cylinder.

 

[kyle_tegtmeyer]

THE COILS ARE NOTORIOUS OF GOING OUT ON THEM I WOULD TRY A SPARK TESTER OR PULL THE PLUG OUT AND TRY TO CRANK IT OVER TO SEE IF THERE IS SPARK I CHANGED 2 COILS ON MY DAD 322 AFTER HE GOT IT BECAUSE OF THE SAME THING HAPPENING

 

[mtrosclair]

BINGO!!!

Front cylinder compression is 110, middle is 120, rear is 120. Front cylinder bright hot spark, rear bright hot spark, middle no such spark!! So it looks like I need a coil, how bad is it price wise? Hard to change, how to test to see if it is truly bad? Thanks for the support guys.

 

[jason_w_hangartner]

The coils are right on top easy to change. They look like grey C size batteries with two wires coming out of each. I think you can test them with an ohm meter. Should be somewhere around 4 ohms.

I would check the coil first. If that tests OK you will need to check the ignition triggers or pulsers. The technical manual has more on test procedures but I do not have it in front of me.

A coil from Deere lists at 61.72
A pulser is 40
and a trigger is 18

 

[mtrosclair]

cool, that's not too awful, do used ones ever show up?

 

[chuckv]

Reese,

The coil is part number AM876075 and Keeping It Green has it for $61.72 for a brand new one.

Here is how to test you existing coil as seen in the TM1591 manual:

You also can swap the center coil with one of the other ones and make sure the issue moves with that coil -- just to be sure it is not some other component. Here is the whole ignition wiring section...note that the transistor module and the pulsar pick-up coils are also involved in each cylinder's spark performance...

Chuck

 

[mtrosclair]

I tried swapping the smaller wires on the coil between two and the problem did not move, also it passed the first test with 4.9 ohms, but failed the second with infinite resistance, so coil is bad? I'll probably go to my deere dealer on Wednesday and see how long it will take otherwise I'll order it from keeping it green.

 

[JDF/ SwampFox]

I read,"a slight miss and I get smoke. after running a minute or so it clears up and runs like a champ."
How did it run like a champ with a failed coil on the middle cylinder? Would a coil warm up and work after a minute of running? A slight miss and smoke is when it is not firing and then it starts firing clearing up that cylinder I would think.
Did you test the wires to make sure the middle wire isn't failed? Did you get new plugs? Old plugs sometimes won't fire under compression.
I am just suggesting eliminating the cheapest solutions first and working towards the more expensive parts, besides, it sounds like you need new plugs anyway if they were rusted in.

 

[mtrosclair]

I have work today so new plugs will be tomorrow. After the smoking cleared up it ran smooth and seems to make an appropriate amount of power. Unless the other two cylinders carried the dead one with no trouble.

 

[900thun]

I have two 322 tractors and they've both needed a coil and one has less than 400 hours on the tractor. These are pretty easy to change. I've read where some people just change all three, but I didn't. I do however have spares laying around. Both of the failed coils would fail after the machine was warm. One was complete failure while the other would cause the engine to miss.

 

[jason_w_hangartner]

When you switched the two small wires on the coils did you switch the plug lead also to see if you moved the no spark issue to another cylinder? I would think you would have to do so to get a meaningful test.

If it was me I would put in new plugs and new plug wires and then give it a shot. Your secondary winding test of infinite resistance is telling you either that the plug wire or coil is bad. With new plugs and new wires do your secondary winding test again to compare. This should eliminate most variables. Your primary windings test out fine so If that doesen't work then I would put a new coil on.

Regarding your initial post is this your first 322? Has it always run the same way since you've had it?

With the center plug being clean and the other two showing combustion. Maybe it was running on 2 cylinders the whole time and you thought it ran good then. Just wait till all three of them holes are burning. You will be pleased!!

 

[mtrosclair]

I has always run the same, I did not know you could change the plug wires, they look attached to the coil. I had a plug in the wire for the test.

 

[jason_w_hangartner]

Well that is my fault for not looking at the thing directly and running on memory. My apologies.

 

[mtrosclair]

They may come apart, I was scared to pull on them and then break them. Then I would defiantly need a new coil! I'm going to deere today. If they are the same as keeping it green I'll order from them. Gotta support the locals you know. If they are way more than keeping it green will get the business. I figure even if its not the could this time a spare would be good to have on hand. My father in law always says if you have a spare the original will never break.