[blakerj10]

Guys, I have finally begun my loader build. Will post pictures and always looking for advice.

Wanted a relatively quick installation but higher lift height than buford bucket. Settled on a semi-permanent subframe. that doubles as the hydraulic reservoir. Pump is mounted where the factory rear pto goes.

First advice needed- I planned on using 1.75 inch cylinders with 1 inch rods. Given the pump I have and these cylinders, the time to lift from ground level to max height is as follows-

rpm gpm sec up sec down
3600 5.4 4.16 2.80
3200 4.8 4.68 3.15
2800 4.2 5.35 3.60
2400 3.6 6.24 4.20
2000 3.0 7.49 5.04


Is this too fast? I like the looks of it.

2" cylinders with 1.25" rods would look like this

rpm gpm sec up sec down
3600 5.4 5.44 3.31
3200 4.8 6.12 3.73
2800 4.2 6.99 4.26
2400 3.6 8.16 4.97
2000 3.0 9.79 5.96


This is using the published pump performance and
2 18" long lift cylinders for both scenarios.

This is the pump I have. Direct drive at 3600 rpm off the rear trans shaft.



http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Pumps/Gear-Pumps/0-37-cu-in-DYNAMIC-GPF1061PA-HYD-PUMP-9-7768-D.axd

 

[iruossim]

Blake, I would go with what ever suits you. My 44 loader in the winter takes time to get the oil warmed up and even though it doesn't take long to make a full cycle you sure can tell its drastically slower than normal.

 

[blakerj10]

I have done quite a bit more reading. I think I am going to error on the side of the faster 1.75 cylinders. A guy can always restrict the flow to slow it down. Hard to speed it up.

The 1.75 cylinders will require more pressure to lift the same load but not really an issue with this pump, hoses, on a 1000 lb garden tractor.

 

[mikeoverbey]

Blake,

I'm surprised you didn't get more feedback on this. My experience is that I run my loader at 1/2 throttle, and that's where most probably also run theirs. So look at the flow for around 1800 rpm. The tractor is quieter and just seems to be a good rpm for loader use. I'd use the 2" cylinders as those are what are factory for the Deere 44 loader as well as the Johnson 27 loader/Deere 20 loaders that I'm familiar with. Lift times are around 6s as you're numbers also suggested. From looking around, that's a somewhat standard number, if I recall correctly. I don't think you'll be too fast. 2" will give you more lift capacity also, as you know.

Mike

 

[blakerj10]

Thanks guys... I thought for sure that the 44 loader used 1.75s? I could be wrong.

The loader speed test thread that was floating around here had the 44 loaders at like 4.5 seconds at WOT.

I was attempting to mimic the performance of the factory, proper built deere loader.

I agree 2" cyl would provide more lift that 1.75 at the same pressure. However, using a joystick with an adjustable relief valve, I think I can just play with that to adjust for the difference. Welded cylinders, lines, lines and pump are rated for 3000psi. I don't see even getting half that pressure for either 1.75 or 2" cylinders.

 

[blakerj10]

Also a pic of the reservoir as the projects stands now.

Needs a few tweaks and adjustments yet. But the mount doubles as the reservoir. The tower doubles as the fill point and joy stick valve mount. The tower also keeps the static fluid level above the pump inlet to avoid starving the pump when operated at angles.

Pump is mounted below the seat pan where rear pto would go.

Main driver for this concept is to be able to quickly put the loader on for a small project and not have to remove mower deck. I just didn't think a Buford bucket would work for my needs.

 

[charms]

I'll agree with Mike that I run the loader at around 1/2 throttle, maybe a bit more. But even at 2000 rpm, you have calculated lift times of 5 - 6 seconds, which would be fine. Painfully slow is not good, but most of us are not using these loaders in commercial, everyday use where speed is the most important thing.
1.75" cylinders at even 2000 psi might provide more lift than you can reasonably counterbalance for. My 420 runs at just over 1000 psi. (2" cylinders.) Just no point in setting it higher.

 

[knottyrope]

with a one second difference use the 2 inch ones, they will be stronger and last longer

 

[charms]

After a second look, I see I was looking at lowering speed of 5 vs 6 seconds. Up was 7.5 vs 9.8 seconds, at 2000 rpm. 9.8 would be a bit slow. but as KnottyRope points out, the 2" cylinders, especially with the larger rod, will be stronger.

 

[minisub]

Blake,
I'd be interested to see your pump mount solution. I've often though a setup like that would be preferable to the front-mount, belt-driven pump on my M27.

 

[dd57chevy]

Blake , I haven't built a loader (did homemake a dump bed though for a truck) but I'll offer what I hope would be considered common sense . Look at actual or at least videos of operating loaders . Time them & see what speed you prefer . At least before you spend a heap of money for something you're unsure of .

PS: No offense , but is there a reason you didn't start this thread in the "Attachments" forum ?

 

[dhager4692]

I am interested in putting my pump on the rear. What type of brackets and connections did you use?

Do you have any pictures or plans?

 

[blakerj10]

Dave, I guess it could be in the attachment forum. Was thinking of it a more as build questions than a mower deck or snowblower I guess. Can be moved.

I do have much loader experience, farm tractors, Michigan 275B, Cat 988, and skid steers, but don't nothing really garden tractor scale. This is why I was leaning toward the faster solution and adding restricting flow in the lift circuit if it felt crazy.

Additionally, its a 1000 pound garden tractor. I really am fighting the urge to go bigger, and stronger at the expense of weight and being over built.