My 322 JD Yanmar Only runs when it wants to. From the reading that I have done It sounded like the Timing delay module was overheating so I did the Ebay thing got a different one and installed it. It ran for about 30 min. and stopped just as it had done before. Next I took the Timing delay module off a running 318 that I have and installed it and I got the same results. Where should I look next to solve this problem?
My 322 JD Yanmar Only runs when it wants to
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Assuming that it is losing it's spark, I would put a test light on the negative contact of the ignition coil. If it flashes when cranking then it is a coil problem, if not, then it has a primary control problem. If it is the latter situation, I would have to get into a wiring diagram to be of help.
John,
I checked the diagram and it looks pretty simple to me (retired auto electrician). If you report the results of tests I throw at you, we will figure out what is wrong with no more guessing. I'm bored silly up here waiting for the snow to melt and this will help!
I checked the diagram and it looks pretty simple to me (retired auto electrician). If you report the results of tests I throw at you, we will figure out what is wrong with no more guessing. I'm bored silly up here waiting for the snow to melt and this will help!
John,
Are you sure you have no spark or could you have a fuel related problem. For example the fuel pump or the solenoid on the carburetor. It could be a connection to the solenoid which shuts off fuel when you turn off the key switch.
BTW, I had two 322 tractors and sold one a couple years ago. I often kick myself for selling it.
Are you sure you have no spark or could you have a fuel related problem. For example the fuel pump or the solenoid on the carburetor. It could be a connection to the solenoid which shuts off fuel when you turn off the key switch.
BTW, I had two 322 tractors and sold one a couple years ago. I often kick myself for selling it.
Mark Ayotte
I ran the 322 this evening till it quit then checked with a test light.
The + side of the coil lights up as soon as the key is turned on and does not flicker.
Test light on the - side wavers but does not give a distinctive break in the light as the starter is turned over. And for extra measure I unpluged the TDM and plugged in the original TDM. It still did not fire.
I ran the 322 this evening till it quit then checked with a test light.
The + side of the coil lights up as soon as the key is turned on and does not flicker.
Test light on the - side wavers but does not give a distinctive break in the light as the starter is turned over. And for extra measure I unpluged the TDM and plugged in the original TDM. It still did not fire.
John,
It may seem to not have a distinctive on/off because it happens fast enough that the filament of the test light doesn't stop glowing before it's back under power. Wavering means that the primary control is trying to make and break the ground to the coil. To be positive that we aren't barking up the wrong tree, I would put a known good spark plug on the end of one of the plug wires, ground it to the engine and see if it fires when cranked over. If it fires then you don't have an ignition problem. If there is no spark, leave the key on and touch a grounded test light repeatedly to the negative post on the coil that goes to your "test" spark plug. If the coil is good, it should fire the plug every time you touch it. I would anticipate that the coil is ok, as there are three of them and,while nothing is impossible, the likelihood of all three of them being bad is slim to none. That time delay module that you are talking about controls the positive side of the coils and you have seen that the coils have power when it won't start, so that module has been ruled out. I think I'll stop there until we confirm whether it is an electrical or a fuel problem. If it continues to be electrical I'm thinking either the transistor module or it's ground supply. To be continued!
It may seem to not have a distinctive on/off because it happens fast enough that the filament of the test light doesn't stop glowing before it's back under power. Wavering means that the primary control is trying to make and break the ground to the coil. To be positive that we aren't barking up the wrong tree, I would put a known good spark plug on the end of one of the plug wires, ground it to the engine and see if it fires when cranked over. If it fires then you don't have an ignition problem. If there is no spark, leave the key on and touch a grounded test light repeatedly to the negative post on the coil that goes to your "test" spark plug. If the coil is good, it should fire the plug every time you touch it. I would anticipate that the coil is ok, as there are three of them and,while nothing is impossible, the likelihood of all three of them being bad is slim to none. That time delay module that you are talking about controls the positive side of the coils and you have seen that the coils have power when it won't start, so that module has been ruled out. I think I'll stop there until we confirm whether it is an electrical or a fuel problem. If it continues to be electrical I'm thinking either the transistor module or it's ground supply. To be continued!
First verify it is a 322 which has 3 coils, not a 317 with a 322 hood on it.
John,
I believe you have possibly eliminated a few items just by checking the +12V on the coil. This includes the ignition switch through the fuse, safety switches through the time delay control module and wires to the coils.
Mark has given you good suggestions for testing spark.
Open items:
Pulsars - Unlikely all three.
Transistor Module - Certainly possible.
Ground wire: Possible
Connector: Possible
Coils: I agree with Mark. These do fail, but all three would be unlikely.
Fuel:
Gas cap vent plugged - Loosen cap after it dies.
Fuel filter - Probably not, but worth checking.
Fuel pump - Failing or wiring.
Bad pickup hose - collapsed or leaking in air.
Carburetor solenoid - This shuts off fuel at the carb main jet when key switch turned off.
I believe you have possibly eliminated a few items just by checking the +12V on the coil. This includes the ignition switch through the fuse, safety switches through the time delay control module and wires to the coils.
Mark has given you good suggestions for testing spark.
Open items:
Pulsars - Unlikely all three.
Transistor Module - Certainly possible.
Ground wire: Possible
Connector: Possible
Coils: I agree with Mark. These do fail, but all three would be unlikely.
Fuel:
Gas cap vent plugged - Loosen cap after it dies.
Fuel filter - Probably not, but worth checking.
Fuel pump - Failing or wiring.
Bad pickup hose - collapsed or leaking in air.
Carburetor solenoid - This shuts off fuel at the carb main jet when key switch turned off.
Ok I have been out of town for a short.
Every connection that I can see has a splash of dielectric grease.
I replaced the fuel filter with one that I can see through.
I have ruled out the DTM.
In my mind The fuel thing is making me wonder. The other day the gage was at 1/4 but the fuel filter was not filling up as it had before.
I have not had the time to mess. And we are going out of town in the am. + it has been cold here BRRR.
Every connection that I can see has a splash of dielectric grease.
I replaced the fuel filter with one that I can see through.
I have ruled out the DTM.
In my mind The fuel thing is making me wonder. The other day the gage was at 1/4 but the fuel filter was not filling up as it had before.
I have not had the time to mess. And we are going out of town in the am. + it has been cold here BRRR.
I know this thread is a year old, but I was wondering if you solved this issue. I am having the same issue with my 322. I get power on the + side of the coils (until an interlock is broken) which I think rules out the TDM. The negative side of the coils seem to have issues, I get strong pulses when the tractor decides to run, but then it will shut off for no reason. When it shuts off, no more pulses on the negative side. Is this a bad transistor module? All connections have been checked and greased, I am out of ideas!
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no more pulses could indicate a transistor module or something before it
I double checked that the transistor module had ground and power even when there were no - pulses at the coils. And, since it's 'all or nothing' I assume that it can't be all 3 pulsars failing in unison. But I want to double check here because that is an expensive module!
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Surprised that this thread never had the wiring diagram excerpts posted to it to help make the discussions much less ambiguous -- so here goes.
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Your earlier substitution of known good TDCM units clearly rules that out, but you could have also done so by measuring the voltage at the pink wire on X18 or the + terminal on a coil to confirm that voltage is present when the key is in the RUN position. Is this voltage also present when the engine stops running after a half hour of use? If yes, then the issue is in the transistor module or the coils or pulsars. If the voltage is not present, most likely something is intermittent in the safety seat switch, the power coming from the fuses (holders or the fuses them selves...) Verify all ground connections as well, of course.
If you have a voltmeter with resistance measuring capability, you can do the following test on the transistor module:
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This table was generated many years ago for analog meters, so a modern digital meter may give different resistance values -- the important thing is to verify that the presence or absence of any continuity.
As mentioned in an earlier post of mine to this thread -- use the TM1591 diagnostic procedures to narrow down the root cause of your symptom...
Chuck
Your earlier substitution of known good TDCM units clearly rules that out, but you could have also done so by measuring the voltage at the pink wire on X18 or the + terminal on a coil to confirm that voltage is present when the key is in the RUN position. Is this voltage also present when the engine stops running after a half hour of use? If yes, then the issue is in the transistor module or the coils or pulsars. If the voltage is not present, most likely something is intermittent in the safety seat switch, the power coming from the fuses (holders or the fuses them selves...) Verify all ground connections as well, of course.
If you have a voltmeter with resistance measuring capability, you can do the following test on the transistor module:
This table was generated many years ago for analog meters, so a modern digital meter may give different resistance values -- the important thing is to verify that the presence or absence of any continuity.
As mentioned in an earlier post of mine to this thread -- use the TM1591 diagnostic procedures to narrow down the root cause of your symptom...
Chuck
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I have given this advise in other threads and it applies here as well.
Any time you have a no start situation you have to see what element is not present to make it start.
You must have spark,fuel,compression and all of it has to happen at the correct time.
Testing coils,TDC modules etc when you don't know what element is missing is chasing your tail around.
Any time I come upon a no start that is what I do.
If spark is missing then carry on checking coils etc.If fuel is missing then you are wasting time checking coils.
AJ
Any time you have a no start situation you have to see what element is not present to make it start.
You must have spark,fuel,compression and all of it has to happen at the correct time.
Testing coils,TDC modules etc when you don't know what element is missing is chasing your tail around.
Any time I come upon a no start that is what I do.
If spark is missing then carry on checking coils etc.If fuel is missing then you are wasting time checking coils.
AJ
I too have the intermittent starting issue with my 322 and am about to lose my mind. Engine cranks but no spark at any of the cylinders using a spark tester. There is power to all three coils. the TDCM has power and ground at the appropriate connector pins per the technical manual trouble shooting procedures, and the transistor module continuity test checks out. I have cleaned every connector multiple times, have a fully charged battery, new fuses... started and ran great yesterday after cleaning the TDCM connectors, but again has no spark today, despite spraying everything with contact cleaner again. What an I missing????
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Steve,
Looking at the wiring diagram I posted above you will see that the + side of the three coils is always powered with 12 volts whenever the hour meter is running (which is to say whenever the key is on and the safety circuits that are the inputs to the TDCM are satisfied...) What switches the coils and causes the spark at the appropriate times is the negative side of the coil that is driven by the outputs of the Transistor Module, which is in turn stimulated by the Pulsar coils at the correct rotation position of the flywheel. Here is some text from the TM1591 on how everything works...
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Chuck
Looking at the wiring diagram I posted above you will see that the + side of the three coils is always powered with 12 volts whenever the hour meter is running (which is to say whenever the key is on and the safety circuits that are the inputs to the TDCM are satisfied...) What switches the coils and causes the spark at the appropriate times is the negative side of the coil that is driven by the outputs of the Transistor Module, which is in turn stimulated by the Pulsar coils at the correct rotation position of the flywheel. Here is some text from the TM1591 on how everything works...
Chuck
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