Weekend Freedom Machines banner

1 - 20 of 42 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Sold my 318 with a 44 loader to fund a nice 332. Found a beautiful example a 1990 (serial x0122) with 700 hours on it only 1600 miles away. It made it 1590 miles...

Had it tied down with ratchet straps over the front frame and rear axle. Front tire lost air, front strap came undone tractor backed off the flatbed trailer and the front strap hooked the front mule drive with the front tires still on the trailer and i dragged it down the highway at 35-40 mph for 300 feet. :empathy: Shoulda coulda; extra strap, parking brake, block the tires, i know... it wont happen again...

OK

Tractor left a trail of AT fluid on the ground as it was towed at a 45 degree angle. lost about a quart. I have since added back to correct operating level.

Hydrostatic transmission does not move in forward or reverse, makes the typical sound when operating normally but no movement. When the towing relief valves are depressed the sound stops and the valves pop back out. Power steering and lift do not work either. I read in another post where this happened and they put it on jack stands and operated the hydro levers for 20 min to bleed the air out. I tried this for 10 min with no effect.

When on jack stands rear tires rotate in opposite directions.

I have the repair manual for a Sundstrand type 15U. Are there different hydrostatic transmission variations?

Next step is to run the hydro for a few more minutes and pray. Then possibly pull the relief valves and see if it is stuck open.

Anything else I should check before i pull the rear end?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,250 Posts
I wouldn't run at all until pulled apart so you don't fill your system with metal if it is making it. You need to take the pump and diff apart to make sure it handled the sprint or not. I am guessing not. You may have even twisted an axle

Most rules I am aware of have you tie things down with 4 points. I try to follow but not always possible. Be thankful it is only the rear end which is a common part. Few hundred. More if upgrading to a 2 spd locking diff which may be the reason to do so now.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,953 Posts
WOW, SOOO sorry to hear that. It's a lesson learned, but the VERY hard way.

Read a post, maybe here, maybe GTT, about a guy trailering his 317...came loose, 45mph 300 feet before it stopped. He got it back home, tore the hydro apart, and the drive motor was pretty much destroyed.

If the sound changes and the bypass valves pop back up, your bypass valves are good. I'm thinking your hydro drive motor is going to need some "attention." I can't help you with hydro model numbers or even if your 332 has the 15U, but there should be info plates on the rear end when you pull it out. Bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,365 Posts
Typical result of high speed towing is that the hydrostatic transmission grenades. Usually but not always the rear end/differential is okay.

Hydro pump is the same from 316 Onan, 318, 330, 332, 420, 430. New parts if available would be very expensive. A used hydro pump is an option. Getting a used hydro and then using parts from both hydros to build a good one is another option.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
I can't believe that anybody thinks those cheap 1" nylon ratchet straps will hold a 1000 pound tractor on a trailer. They are for looks only and to satisfy minimal requirements for securing something to a trailer, on a straight road, without any quick stops, starts or turns.

Mistakes cost money and time as you will soon find out. You are VERY lucky it wasn't worse as in the tractor rolling sideways down the road or into a following/oncoming vehicle. If I had chains and binders I would check them twice in the first 100 miles.

Events/posts like this are totally preventable with a little common sense.

All that said, my latest acquisition, an '84 318 is on its way here being held on the trailer by nylon straps. The trailer has walls and a tailgate and it has been hauled around like that (per the PO) everywhere. Not me. Hope it gets here OK.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
I have to agree that the hydro is toast. If you’ve even thought about having the two speed rear with locking differential now is the time to do it.
I use ratchet straps but use one on each corner and tie up the ends so that if they do come loose the straps still hold.
There’s no use dwelling on it. It happened and now you move on. Like it was said above it could have been a lot worse.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,463 Posts
My tractor gets chained (5/16) on each side in the back and a heavy duty strap on the front. My loader tractor weighs 1600 pounds and has still moved around. And that is an enclosed trailer.

The Highway Patrol will check on trailers to see if the chains used are the correct strength and the come alongs are the correct ones. I learned this from my buddy who has a larger tractor/loader with bush hog he puts on a fifth wheel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,223 Posts
I can't believe that anybody thinks those cheap 1" nylon ratchet straps will hold a 1000 pound tractor on a trailer. They are for looks only and to satisfy minimal requirements for securing something to a trailer, on a straight road, without any quick stops, starts or turns.

Mistakes cost money and time as you will soon find out. You are VERY lucky it wasn't worse as in the tractor rolling sideways down the road or into a following/oncoming vehicle. If I had chains and binders I would check them twice in the first 100 miles.

Events/posts like this are totally preventable with a little common sense.

All that said, my latest acquisition, an '84 318 is on its way here being held on the trailer by nylon straps. The trailer has walls and a tailgate and it has been hauled around like that (per the PO) everywhere. Not me. Hope it gets here OK.

Cool, Kick the guy while he's already down and feeling like ****.... I am sure he's learned a good lesson....

. Thats a beautiful 332, I hope you repost after you fix it and let us know what is wrong..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25 Posts
my brother did the same thing to a 400 3 years ago. i took the pump out of a 317 and i am still using the tractor to mow my yard.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,995 Posts
Jenson,

Really sorry to hear about your damaged tractor. Yes the inside of that transmission is going to be hamburger (actually Deere-burger...) and you will need a complete replacement. You should also check for cracks and other damage in the frame around the rear end and axles and in the axles themselves.

A good 332 is well worth repairing so just take a deep breath and go forward... I agree with going for the 2 speed axle if you can find the parts.

Chuck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
I don't think we need to add insult to injury. OP didn't say what size straps he used, many quality 1 inch straps have a 1000lb. wll. To state one needs to use chains and binders for a thousand pound garden tractor is ridiculous. If a tire goes flat with chain and binder the chain will be loose also.
Jenson good luck with the repair, if you can't find parts closer I have a complete hydro and rear.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
3,463 Posts
I have not found the 1000 lb straps, most of what I have found were 400 to 600 lbs. And I did not suggest that he needed chains. This is what I do after having straps break on me. I have towed my tractor (318 with 44 loader and over 300 lbs of counterweight) in a trailer distances of over 1200 miles and have seen what affects the straps. There are many including the way the trailer is hitched.

Randy, I did not say this. "To state one needs to use chains and binders for a thousand pound garden tractor is ridiculous."
 

·
Administrator
Joined
·
2,171 Posts
Ok fellas. I think we've beaten on the tie down thing long enough. The OP stated he was going to do things better, it was a learning experience for him. Let's not bash or berate or take anything out of context here. We're all friends. :thumb:

Let's get back to the repair! :read:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
91 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
The ratchet tie downs where 2" with a working load limit of 3,333 lbs and a 10,000 lbs. breaking strength.

Are there multiple variants of the sundstrand type 15U?

I have a couple 316s. I could pull the rear end out of and install in the 332 but I want to figure out what happened and see if its a simple fix...

Thanks for the encouragement, i almost didn't share this post due to embarrassment. I knew i would be berated but my hope is that someone can learn from my mistakes. I can take the scrutiny.

I will let you know what i find!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
431 Posts
If you have a 316 Onan the hydro is the same. Any of the open frame tractors will work.
If you have a 316 Kohler or any other closed frame tractor the hydro is different.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,995 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,250 Posts
We all learn somehow. Thank you for sharing as it may have helped prevent another from doing this.

Now on to getting it torn down. No need to do anything until taken apart to know what to search for. You will need to take the loader off and sub frame since that attaches to the rear axle. You might try to remove the fender pan and just unhook the rear sub frame from the axles but it might be too tight.

Loosen the drive shaft, put tractor frame on jack stands about 1/2 inch off the ground from the wheels. Put a rolling jack under the front of the diff from the rear. Then remove the front hydro brace and control linkage. Take off the brake rod nuts and remove the bolts holding the axles to the frame. You also need to remove the air baffles around the pump. Then lower the rolling jack. Removing the bolt should drop the tires to the ground. Roll out backwards until the driveshaft is off. Then drop the jack more to clear the rock shaft.

Then you can unbolt the pump, without even draining oil if you like. But honestly drain the oil before getting this out. Once pump is off take the jack out and stand up on the wheels so one is up on top and it all balances on the other wheel. Take off the top wheel, then unbolt the axle from the housing. No need to mess with the brakes. Then unbolt the bottom axle and lift the diff off the bottom axle. Split the cases apart.


Note which way the flat is on the front charge pump on the side. It is on the input shaft and held on with two bolts. If on wrong it won't pump. Not a big deal but frustrating. Then unbolt the big case. It is spring loaded for about .25 inches so work around the bolts so it doesn't bind. You need a roll punch to get the roll pins out of the swash plate control to get the shaft out. Then it is all apart. If the shaft is good keep it or sell it. Other parts may be trash but that shaft is the most common failure and can make a bad pump good. If there is a steep down in the shaft almost like a machined surface near the front bearing on the charge pump it is trash.

Diff, take the case bolts out, take the gears out and check bearings. Brother had a bad bearing. Clean a d put together if reusing. Put new seals in both.

Even if getting a used pump and diff take apart to confirm being good and reseal. Around 100 for seals to get another 20 years of no worry.

Good luck. No one was hurt and lessons were learned. And -for the most part the tractor wasn't hurt either. Pump and diff are minor to what it could have been.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,953 Posts
Jenson, What happened is kinda simple, the repair almost simple, but $$$.

Your rear tires are driven through gears connected to a hydraulic motor...cannot understand the comments about damaging/replacing hyd. pump. Your tractor will travel at a max speed of 6-10mph (??) and yours just went 45mph. The gearing is mechanically connected and NOT forgiving and will turn you hyd. motor at, at least, 5 times its rated rpm. AND your hyd. motor is normally driven by your pump supplying hydraulic pressure AND lubrication. For the first couple hundred rpms, you had residual oil in the hyd. motor. After that it ran in a dry, un-lubricated state. Clearances in hydraulic components are measured to .001 MAX and running dry will cause parts to expand, score or guall (sp), and then, usually self destruct..."gernade" is a common term used here!

Repair (guesstimate here and can only be determined by dismantling): Cylinder and piston assembly. These are lapped units and purchased as an assembly...about $1300 from JD! You may also need a swash plate, bearings, and seals.

Pull your hydro apart, see how bad/good it is an go from there. I'm thinking your 316 hydro is the best, most economical repair. Bob
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
21 Posts
The ratchet tie downs where 2" with a working load limit of 3,333 lbs and a 10,000 lbs. breaking strength.

Are there multiple variants of the sundstrand type 15U?

I have a couple 316s. I could pull the rear end out of and install in the 332 but I want to figure out what happened and see if its a simple fix...

Thanks for the encouragement, i almost didn't share this post due to embarrassment. I knew i would be berated but my hope is that someone can learn from my mistakes. I can take the scrutiny.

I will let you know what i find!
I apologize too for my rash, pull the trigger, worry about the foot in mouth results later, comment. It sounds like you had the tractor pretty robustly strapped to the trailer but unfortunately it wasn't bulletproof. Good luck with the repair, hopefully it will cost less money than time. Too bad you are across the country because I have a "88 318 I am thinking about parting out and apparently the hydrostatic drives last forever (unless they fall off a trailer):=(

It might be a good idea to lock a tractor in free wheel mode while strapped to a trailer just in case the worst does happen.
 
1 - 20 of 42 Posts
Top