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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My back is out and between the pain and the meds, my brain isn't braining very well right now. So I need a double check on some loader geometry.

Specifically, what are you giving up when mounting the lift cylinders horizontal instead of on a diagonal?

For example, horizontal:



Diagonal:



My brain is telling me little to no difference, but I can't really trust it in it's current drugged state.

The reason I ask is the cylinders I have are too long to fit diagonally from the uprights to the brace. But if I were to mount them a little lower on the the arms, I can gain enough space to fit them horizontally. My preference is to make these cylinders fit as another 500-ish bucks for shorter ones is a a bitter pill I'd rather not swallow right now. As long as I can keep around 400-500 lbs of capacity (2.5" lift cylinders) in the bucket, I'm good to go.
 

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What I can see is with the cylinders mounted horizontal you are loosing break out force when crowding the pile because the cutting edge is moving forward instead of upward. To offset this I would think you would need increased boom raise force from either a larger cylinder diameter or increased hydraulic pressure. My opinion of course.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
What I can see is with the cylinders mounted horizontal you are loosing break out force when crowding the pile because the cutting edge is moving forward instead of upward. To offset this I would think you would need increased boom raise force from either a larger cylinder diameter or increased hydraulic pressure. My opinion of course.
They’re 2.5” cylinders, so enough force shouldn’t be a problem. The 2.5-ers are overkill for the loader as it is.

Now speed, thats a different story. Bigger cylinders, slower speed.

Speed I’ll hopefully handle down the road with an independent pump with more gpm than the oem transaxle pump. I’ve got an 8.5 gpm @3600 rpm pump sitting on the shelf for when I figure out how to drive it off the x750 somewhere.
 

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I sold my CTC loader and went back to a model 44 for that reason. My opinion again is a transmission charge pump will not support a hard charging loader. Fine for moving mulch around and light landscaping but will not dig a basement, I do not do that type of work with my loader but I do get upset when I have to wait for the loader to respond or it won't lift what I try to lift. I haven't had opportunity to use my latest model 44 but the first one I had never failed to lift what I was trying to load. I did not however have enough rear ballast and often it would lift the rear of the tractor instead of what I was trying to lift. Yes, absolutely you need loader to have its own hydraulic system. 8.5 gpm seems a little large but if designed right you can dial down the pressure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I sold my CTC loader and went back to a model 44 for that reason. My opinion again is a transmission charge pump will not support a hard charging loader. Fine for moving mulch around and light landscaping but will not dig a basement, I do not do that type of work with my loader but I do get upset when I have to wait for the loader to respond or it won't lift what I try to lift. I haven't had opportunity to use my latest model 44 but the first one I had never failed to lift what I was trying to load. I did not however have enough rear ballast and often it would lift the rear of the tractor instead of what I was trying to lift. Yes, absolutely you need loader to have its own hydraulic system. 8.5 gpm seems a little large but if designed right you can dial down the pressure.
It’s 8.5 @ 3600 rpm. It’s rated 5.9 @ 1800 rpm though and I’d like to run it in the 2000rpm range.

The aux system will get its own system relief set at approx 1000 psi. Its also open center, so 0 load most times its running. I’m actually considering making it an “on demand” system. Making chips is not a problem for me and I’ve been eyeballing a new AC clutch/pulley sitting on one of my shelves. But thats a project for next year, after I get the loader itself built…
 

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Cylinder to arm geometry only really matters to make best use of the stroke. Make a triangle from the arm pivot pin to the cylinder rod pin to the cylinder base pin to get an idea of the lift height. Lower cylinder rod location on the arm loses height per given stroke.

A good goal for lift speed is 3 to 4 seconds to max lift. It's just a calculation between your pump and cylinders. I have that speed at about 2200 rpm using 2" cylinders and 4.8 (at 3600) gpm and it feels about right.
 

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Cylinder to arm geometry only really matters to make best use of the stroke. Make a triangle from the arm pivot pin to the cylinder rod pin to the cylinder base pin to get an idea of the lift height. Lower cylinder rod location on the arm loses height per given stroke.

A good goal for lift speed is 3 to 4 seconds to max lift. It's just a calculation between your pump and cylinders. I have that speed at about 2200 rpm using 2" cylinders and 4.8 (at 3600) gpm and it feels about right.
Are you running off the tractors hydraulics?
 
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