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Discussion Starter #1
I just started mowing, noticed belt was loose, tightened a tiny bit, got back on and flipped PTO switch again. Nothing. Zero movement.

Took off the belt, pto spins freely just like when I first adjusted it. When pto switch off and engine running (with belt attached), pto doesn't spin.

Hmm.


Checked the wires to the key switch. Noticed the green wire to regulator had burned connector, and contact on key switch also charred.

Wondering whether the regulator is shot. I have been having trouble recently with starting tractor when hot (fine from cold) and wonder if issue is that coil is gone.

Has a bad coil caused regulator to start to fail (or vice versa) and now caused a connector to fry because of output voltage problems? Or do do I have a problem elsewhere (e.g. in PTO) that is causing these electrical gremlins?

Pic attached of green wire after I disconnected. Starting up tractor after this is disconnected has no change in behavior to pto starting interestingly.

Thoughts appreciated!

Thanks



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Discussion Starter #2
I did some digging in another thread, saw a note about burnt regulator wire equals failing regulator.

So I bought a new regulator and coil. My single cylinder shakes it to death, so I'm going to fabricate a mount for the coil in front of the battery to get it into a more solid place.

Now regarding the PTO... would a burnt out regulator connector at the key switch (or burnt out regulator) cause a knock on effect to stop the PTO getting power, or should I be looking for burnt out connections between the key switch and the coil (like at pto switch)?

I guess this is the reason fuses were invented!

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Rob, Old regulator probably overcharging and this can burn/char connection, as shown, or also damage anything else in your entire electrical system! You'll have to start checking components.

Remove wire from pto, to key to "Run", and check for 12 volts from pto wire to ground. If voltage, ohm pto coil to ground, should be 3-4 ohms. If no voltage, check yellow wire (although it appears you replaced this with pink) from key switch to pto switch. If voltage, bad pto switch. If no voltage, damaged wire.

Increasing idle speed will reduce violent shaking at idle and shutdown. I forget spec, probably around 1200 rpm, but around 1800 rpm, engine idles nicely.

Keep us posted on findings, Bob
 
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Discussion Starter #4
Rob, Old regulator probably overcharging and this can burn/char connection, as shown, or also damage anything else in your entire electrical system! You'll have to start checking components.

Remove wire from pto, to key to "Run", and check for 12 volts from pto wire to ground. If voltage, ohm pto coil to ground, should be 3-4 ohms. If no voltage, check yellow wire (although it appears you replaced this with pink) from key switch to pto switch. If voltage, bad pto switch. If no voltage, damaged wire.

Increasing idle speed will reduce violent shaking at idle and shutdown. I forget spec, probably around 1200 rpm, but around 1800 rpm, engine idles nicely.

Keep us posted on findings, Bob
Thanks Bob! I will take a look at that. I'm going to echo this back to you so I understand it correctly, using the wiring diagram wording (because someone rewired my tractor long ago with the wrong colors. I should really just replace the whole harness!)

  • remove wire from PTO switch 'C' to Key Switch 'IGN' (yellow wire in diagram).
  • then check for 12 volts from the PTO coil by measuring from from PTO wire (blue in diagram) to ground.
  • if voltage present from PTO to ground, check for resistance of 3-4 ohms off that blue wire.
  • if no voltage, check the yellow wire (in diagram) and replace as it is damaged.
  • if there is voltage off that blue wire, then PTO switch is damaged, so replace.
Is that right?

Thanks
 

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Not quite Rob. Wire from ignition switch to pto switch (yellow in diagram) supplies power to pto coil.

1. Disconnect (blue) wire from pto coil. Turn key to "Run" and pto switch "On". This should supply power to pto coil, so you should have voltage on wire going back to pto switch.
1a. If voltage, check resistance from (blue) wire going to pto coil and ground.
2. If no voltage, now remove (yellow) wire from pto switch. Turn key to "Run" and (yellow) wire should have voltage. If voltage is on (yellow) wire, pto switch is bad. If no voltage, bad (yellow) wire or connection.

Get back if still not clear or with results! Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Bob! Very clear now, will follow that through.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
OK, I didn't quite follow the instructions, but here's where I am:
- purchased new PTO switch. Tested new and old PTO switch. Both same.

Removed PTO and disconnected wire. Measured resistance and instead of 2-4 ohms, I'm reading ~50 ohms consistently.

Something not right there. I also noticed that cable between PTO and PTO switch was 10AWG (I think that's right) at PTO, then half way up changed over to 14AWG. So that needs to be replaced too.

I think I need a new PTO coil.
 

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Rob, At 3 ohms, the bottom end/lowest acceptable resistance, your pto will draw 4 amps. This is well withing the capability of 14AWG. I'd replace with 14AWG from pto switch to pto coil.

Something NOT right with 50 ohm reading !!! Possibly wrong scale, meter not zeroed, bad battery, or meter shot! I believe meters have a battery in them used only for checking resistance. If meter is several years old...or questionable quality like a Harbor Freight meter... I'd put in a new battery or consider replacing meter.

If you have 12 volts to pto coil, coil is grounded, and it doesn't operate, probably bad windings and needs replacing. Possibly wrong air gap or mechanical damage in pto but that's why a VALID resistance check is performed...to verify windings OK. Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I cleaned up the contacts and snipped wire a little to get a clean reading and measured the resistance of the clutch again. 22 ohms (consistently). Eye opening if it is supposed to be 2-4 ohms. I have an 2 year old Fluke meter, with a brand new set of batteries.

I found a decent used OEM Ogura clutch pack on ebay, so that's coming in. I can compare the resistance of that. My PTO bearing is starting to go anyway and the discs are getting really quite worn (and I think a little warped) so maybe time anyway.

OK good to know on the wire. It appears to be 10 gauge at the clutch side. I purchased a short section of (blue this time) 10AWG, and multiple colors of 12AWG so I can get the rest of the wiring colors right at some point as that is driving me nuts.

I've got in my hands / on the way replacements for the following, which i will replace one at a time until I solve the issue and throw out what's broken:
  • Voltage regulator (old one not yet tested)
  • PTO switch (old and new have same continuity readings)
  • Wire from PTO to PTO switch (old had multiple connected sections, badly connected between sections and damaged casing)
  • Seat switch (tested old and has 'settled' continuity of 0.2ohms when on)
  • Ignition switch (on the way)
  • Coil (on the way - this is to solve my other problem of not starting up when engine hot)
 

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OK twice now! I thought it may have been a typo! PTO coil should be 3-4 ohms, not 2-4 ohms. 2 ohms probably won't engage, not enough magnetism. Your reading of 22 ohms still doesn't sound right!

A PTO coil has "X" feet of wire with "Y" resistance per foot. When a coil fails, it typically shorts out, either to case or other wires. This reduces the number of feet the current passes through (and less ohms) and produces less of a magnetic field.

Sounds like a good assortment of repair parts! I would only install them if an item is definitely bad.
Voltage regulator: Start engine, warm, and go WOT. Check battery voltage, should be 13-14.5 volts. Bad regulator is more (16-17 volts) or less (12-5 volts).
PTO switch: Turn ignition switch ""Run", disconnect wire from PTO and verify 12 volts. Turn PTO switch off. Crank engine. If engine cranks PTO switch OK. (If not, could be other issues!)
PTO wire: Yup, replace!
Seat switch: No idea what it should be!
Ignition switch: To many items to determine EXACTLY when bad.
Coil: Should solve no hot start issue.

The 314 is a pretty basic machine electrically, but it's also been around for a while. Once you get the bugs out, it'll be good for another 30 years or more and you're REALLY gonna luv it! Bob
 

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Rob, One quick question. When your checking ohms for PTO, you ARE checking wire to PTO coil and to ground (and not wire to PTO switch) ? Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I'm checking from wire to ground, as per this video:

One lead on the wire, the other lead on that round contact on the back side of the field magnet. All this while the PTO is entirely disconnected from the tractor (removed physically and on my bench). I cleaned the contacts and snipped the wire also to expose some fresh wire. 20 ohms seems awfully high resistance.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I just saw your other comments Bob, thanks for the check list!

I will verify first and replace piece by piece. At least then I can see what went wrong and will have some spare parts on hand if need be.

Yep, one gremlin at a time. The coil annoys me as it is only 4 years old. I think it got shaken to death. I set my low idle adjustment screw to get it to the right point where it doesn't shake so that should help some. I'm going to create a new metal mount in front of the battery (there's some space there and it is nice and solid) once I teach myself to weld!

The wiring on this thing is a mess. All the colors are off, different gauges, lots of badly crimped butt connections. I will tackle that probably in one of my late fall fix it projects. First I will get it working again, then I will try to make the wiring right.
 

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I watched your video and NOW the ohm readings on the old pto make sense...1.3 ohms, THAT'S BAD!...much more sense than 50 or 20 ohms! You should be in good shape with new coil. Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oh sorry Bob, that wasn't my video. Someone else's. Was just showing how I tested it using that video as an example.

Here's my video of my old PTO! I just remeasured and look what I got. 168 ohms!

and a test of a random cable, hardly any resistance

The new coil arrives Friday I think, so I shall connect and test that. If it also says 168, then my multimeter is getting sent back to Fluke for a calibration.
 

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Rob, Something is not right with the meter ! You tested the coil 3 times and got 3 completely different readings: 50, 22, and now 168 ohms.

I can only guess on the wire size of the cable you made up and checked. If that was #14 AWG and 4" long, you should get a reading of .00083 ohms which is probably out of the range of your meter, so nothing verified there!

See what you get on the coil that arrives Friday. Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Yep, maybe you are right with the meter. I just did another test - 70 ohms today? The wind changed direction I guess

This is a Fluke 107... made in PRC $110 Fluke, not one of the higher end models. Still, supposed to follow ISO 9001, but not sure what that actually means in PRC. I opened the manual for the first time and out fell a bunch of documents in Chinese... hazardous substance document (chinese, then english on same page), and then the warranty... all in Chinese. Then the manual! First part is Chinese, second is English.... HMMM. Me thinks this is a product intended for Chinese market, but sold on Amazon.

I did have a very small drop from 3 feet to asphalt and there's a minor ding to plastic outer. If that was the cause to the woes this thing is complete junk.

My hopes with the 107 was to get a reputable brand meter, that could last decades. Perhaps that was a little ambitious.

Maybe I just need to get a cheap $30 meter and throw it out every few years when it starts acting up. Here's one https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/BK_7000103?partTypeName=Multi+Meter&keywordInput=multimeter
 

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Thinking PRC could mean "Product of Republic of China...especially with the Chinese documentation!

Unless you're doing electronic work, an analog meter isn't a bad choice either. I've got a Radio Shack analog my Dad bought around '85-'90. I've replaced the batteries once and it works fine.

Fluke is like every other American manufacturer. They have top shelf items, usually made with Chinese parts but far better quality control, and they have their low buck items, made with Chinese parts and no quality control!

Many people are fooled by ISO 9001 as well as later versions. ISO simply states, "Say what you do, and do what you say." So, I can be ISO certified and say, "I'm gonna put a bunch of electrical parts in a housing and attach wires to it, that's ALL I have to do! These could be electrical parts I've picked up from the floor, put them in a tin can I found on the street, and tape a few wires to the outside. I have satisfied the ISO requirements!

However, I can also state I'm using certified vendors, and explain how they're certified, and request certified material inspections, and on and on about every detail about the product, the vendors, any test you do, etc!

You can make a simple, short statement and get ISO certified, or write a 5,000 page book and get certified. That 5,000 page book will probably also need 100,000 files to support every word that was stated. Been there, done that! I was an ISO auditor for a company I worked for.

Getting back to a meter, your best bet is a low cost (let's call it disposable) meter. Those typically work well or not at all! Bob
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Yep, that all makes sense.

I just went to my local Napa and used their nice high end Fluke meter side by side with mine. They gave exactly the same reading. So maybe something is really wrong with the coil or the wire into the electromagnet Once I get the 'new' one I will test back and forth. A person next to me in line noticed what I was doing and mentioned it was tough to get the same reading twice on such things. We'll see when I get the new one
 

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Discussion Starter #20
'New' coil from ebay arrived. Looks to be in incredibly good condition, almost like it got used for 1/2 a season and that's it.

Tested with my PRC Fluke 107 (that's what I'm going to call it now) and got between 3.4 to 3.6 ohms consistently. I'll call that a good PTO field magnet.

So I believe I have found one of the victims, now I have to find any others, and hopefully the smoking gun also. I shall start at the regulator and work my way towards the PTO from there. That will keep me busy this weekend
 
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