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I am restoring my JD 317, any tips? How much hydraulic oil would a 317 take? And where would I fill it?
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Restoring 317... any tips?
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here it is, it has a kt17 series one, is it even worth buying new rings for? With all of its issues, or should I just part that engine out and buy a magnum 18?
Welcome, Isaac! The first and best tip is to get a service manual for a 317. While not exactly cheap used or new from JD, it is the best money you will spend even if you decide to replace the engine. The 317 manual does include engine specs. and rebuild information for the Kohler Series I.
Is the engine worth rebuild parts? That's hard to answer without a tear down and inspection of the engine parts. Yes it could cost more than a good used engine if you can find one. A good Series II is pretty much a drop in. A Magnum is probably better, and more likely to be found in good condition. There are some differences such as electronic ignition, oil filter interference if equipped with one, and crankshaft size to name a few. Others here can help with an engine swap. I have not changed out my old Series I yet, so I don't have hands on experience to help much with that.
The condition of the rest of the tractor and your needs for it should be considered. It could be a budget buster, but only you can determine that.
I bought my 1980 model in 1990 and still like it enough to keep it!
If you just need to top off a low fluid situation, look for a pipe with a hex shaped screw on cap located just behind the hitch plate. There should be a clear plastic tube showing in the slot on the left side of the hitch plate. When full the fluid will show in the middle of the slot with the engine not running. If draining, changing filter, etc., you'll need more info.
tommyhawk
Is the engine worth rebuild parts? That's hard to answer without a tear down and inspection of the engine parts. Yes it could cost more than a good used engine if you can find one. A good Series II is pretty much a drop in. A Magnum is probably better, and more likely to be found in good condition. There are some differences such as electronic ignition, oil filter interference if equipped with one, and crankshaft size to name a few. Others here can help with an engine swap. I have not changed out my old Series I yet, so I don't have hands on experience to help much with that.
The condition of the rest of the tractor and your needs for it should be considered. It could be a budget buster, but only you can determine that.
I bought my 1980 model in 1990 and still like it enough to keep it!
If you just need to top off a low fluid situation, look for a pipe with a hex shaped screw on cap located just behind the hitch plate. There should be a clear plastic tube showing in the slot on the left side of the hitch plate. When full the fluid will show in the middle of the slot with the engine not running. If draining, changing filter, etc., you'll need more info.
tommyhawk
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I have a 316 with a KT17 Series 1 transplanted in it. Bought the engine from a Bolens 1700 tractor, motor was torn apart, I put rings in it and threw it back together. It has been running great for 5 years now. It has a FEL and retrofitted 42" MTD snowblower. I have had no problem with this engine but I have a level lot so it never gets starved of oil from being on a slope.
Costs of rebuild will tell you whether to rebuild or transplant, just rings are a cheap fix.
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Costs of rebuild will tell you whether to rebuild or transplant, just rings are a cheap fix.
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Thank you Doug and Tom I appreciate the information! I actually did a complete teardown of the kt17 series| The original owner said it burned alot of oil so they parked it in the weeds. I found it at a cross country meet and I actually got it for free... anyways, I figured out why it was burning oil, the rings were stuck, other than that, the engine was in good condition. It just had a little bit of rust in one cylinder. I freed up the rings on one side and on the other, I snapped both compression rings. I didn't know if it was worth the rings or not (being it is a series one) while I had the engine torn apart, I actually drilled a few extra holes in the connecting rods for better lubrication, I also made some steel connecting rod dippers and put them on the connecting rod endcaps so they splash the oil around again for better lubrication. Where I live, it is a little hilly so that is why I'm not sure if my mods will work and I am not sure if the series one will hold up. That is why I'm not sure if I should put money into it or not
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwsemxLO9r4#t=10
This is what its looking like so far, tell me what you think should be done and what you think might be wrong, this is my first garden tractor restoration so I need some input, thanks!
This is what its looking like so far, tell me what you think should be done and what you think might be wrong, this is my first garden tractor restoration so I need some input, thanks!
I just finished a repower on a 317 with a magnum 18. The oil filter and electronic ignition are easy to deal with. The shaft size was the same as my KT motor. For oil and ignition questions look for a 317 repower thread that I started a while ago. It has a link to another thread about the relay needed to have the engine shut down. I got a remote oil filter from a bidding website and (for now) have it mounted to the fender pan near the break peddle. I saw someone put one in the battery box but it was facing down and would drip oil all the way down. With it horizontal it always is full and when you change it the oil doesn't run inside the tractor.
I'd advise doing a good deglaze honing and ridge removal, then check both cylinders with a bore gage. If the bores are not round and pit free, or grossly oversized, it would not be worth the new rings, gaskets, and valve reseating IMHO. It would run so you can analyze the mods you've done, but would use some oil. Don't expect a KT17 to not use some oil, even in perfect condition.
Since it has sat outside so long, check the relief valves in the top of the tranny. If the little plungers are rusty and are stuck down, it will not move when you get a running engine. With the fender deck off it's easy to check to see if the plungers will move up and down as they should or stuck. Those relief valve plungers, when held down by the screw in front of the seat, are what allows the tractor to be pushed by hand without the engine running. If you are already familiar with all this, my apologies for the extra.
The biggest problem ever on my 317 was the driveshaft. Deere calls it the universal joint. They call the stub shaft mounted on the engine a driveshaft. Check the u-joints for looseness and flexibility. Check the engine mounted shaft for wear. Both parts are a bit pricy. More about that later if you need it.
tommyhawk
Since it has sat outside so long, check the relief valves in the top of the tranny. If the little plungers are rusty and are stuck down, it will not move when you get a running engine. With the fender deck off it's easy to check to see if the plungers will move up and down as they should or stuck. Those relief valve plungers, when held down by the screw in front of the seat, are what allows the tractor to be pushed by hand without the engine running. If you are already familiar with all this, my apologies for the extra.
The biggest problem ever on my 317 was the driveshaft. Deere calls it the universal joint. They call the stub shaft mounted on the engine a driveshaft. Check the u-joints for looseness and flexibility. Check the engine mounted shaft for wear. Both parts are a bit pricy. More about that later if you need it.
tommyhawk
Also, if you haven't already done it, scroll down this part of the forum to find the thread "John Deere 317 rebuild questions", and read all including the archived parts. A lot of good stuff there about another WFMer's adventure with a 317.
tommyhawk
tommyhawk
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Thank you guys!
((I am restoring my JD 317, any tips?))
Yes, Depending on MUCH restoring you plan to do, don't ever expect to get your costs back when selling the 317. It's much cheaper to buy someone elses' restored tractor and labor than your own.
If you are keeping the tractor for a long time for your own use or play, do a good job and it'll make you happy for many years to come.
Yes, Depending on MUCH restoring you plan to do, don't ever expect to get your costs back when selling the 317. It's much cheaper to buy someone elses' restored tractor and labor than your own.
If you are keeping the tractor for a long time for your own use or play, do a good job and it'll make you happy for many years to come.
Isaac,
Welcome to WFM. Thanks for the video. You will get lots of good opinions here.
If you want to rebuild your wiring harness, here is a link to a small mom and pop company that sell connectors. They have ones that will snap into the original plastic housings to make it look like factory replacements. I've done three harnesses and it's very easy to do not to mention very inexpensive.http://www.repairconnector.com/
Good luck,
Tom
Welcome to WFM. Thanks for the video. You will get lots of good opinions here.
If you want to rebuild your wiring harness, here is a link to a small mom and pop company that sell connectors. They have ones that will snap into the original plastic housings to make it look like factory replacements. I've done three harnesses and it's very easy to do not to mention very inexpensive.http://www.repairconnector.com/
Good luck,
Tom
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Mr. Slaback! Nice to hear from you. I feel like the 300 series is better than the 200 series because, hydrostatic drive is better than gear drive because you can vary the speed. Also shaft drive is better than belt drive because with belt drive, the belt can slip and can also break and that is much less likely to happen with shaft drive. You should come back to Albany! Ben wants to know how the 446 is doing as well.
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The 446 has not progressed at all. It took a back seat to my move this summer.
A lot of guys would agree with your assertion as to hydros over gear drives. Personally, I prefer to change belts instead hydraulic pumps and being able to slow down, steer and lift or disengage an implement simultaneously is a nice feature as well. I'll never be a fan of console controlled hydros for that reason. In terms of varying speed, you should do some reading in the gear drive section on the variator in the 200 series. It is basically a double belt variable drive system similar to a snowmobile drive which gives you multiple speeds in the same gear that also self-adjusts its ground speed to keep the PTO speed optimal. It's pretty cool.
On to the 317. You simply cannot beat a free tractor. Personally, I would look long and hard at rebuilding the KT17 that is in it. The design has obvious issues when run at an angle but if the engine can be made to run for the cost of rings that beats the snot out of dropping $1800 for a Magnum retrofit. Knowledge of the problem is the best way to avoid issues with the series 1 tractors.
In terms of checking that out, like the guys above mentioned, use a bore gauge to see what you really have there. If you don't have one, there should be one at school. It is in the green toolbox in one of the bottom three drawers in a red case about the size of a big socket set. When you take your measurements take at least 4 per cylinder. Measure at both the top and bottom of the cylinder and take 2 measurements perpendicularly to one another. For example, N to S and then E to W. Don't measure the very top of the cylinder as there will be wear there from detonation.
Also, learn the stories that the tractor has to tell you. Ask the previous owner if you can but also make guesses based on the machine itself. For example, since your tractor was missing the steering column there is a good chance that assuming it was not salvaged for parts, that is why the tractor was parked. If that is the case, your engine might run like a top as is. Like we talked about in class, start off by fixing what's broken. Don't rip into anything unless you have a pretty good idea it is problematic. Usually machines stop running for 1 reason, not several. If you can get it going again then you can start looking into wear issues one at a time.
A lot of guys would agree with your assertion as to hydros over gear drives. Personally, I prefer to change belts instead hydraulic pumps and being able to slow down, steer and lift or disengage an implement simultaneously is a nice feature as well. I'll never be a fan of console controlled hydros for that reason. In terms of varying speed, you should do some reading in the gear drive section on the variator in the 200 series. It is basically a double belt variable drive system similar to a snowmobile drive which gives you multiple speeds in the same gear that also self-adjusts its ground speed to keep the PTO speed optimal. It's pretty cool.
On to the 317. You simply cannot beat a free tractor. Personally, I would look long and hard at rebuilding the KT17 that is in it. The design has obvious issues when run at an angle but if the engine can be made to run for the cost of rings that beats the snot out of dropping $1800 for a Magnum retrofit. Knowledge of the problem is the best way to avoid issues with the series 1 tractors.
In terms of checking that out, like the guys above mentioned, use a bore gauge to see what you really have there. If you don't have one, there should be one at school. It is in the green toolbox in one of the bottom three drawers in a red case about the size of a big socket set. When you take your measurements take at least 4 per cylinder. Measure at both the top and bottom of the cylinder and take 2 measurements perpendicularly to one another. For example, N to S and then E to W. Don't measure the very top of the cylinder as there will be wear there from detonation.
Also, learn the stories that the tractor has to tell you. Ask the previous owner if you can but also make guesses based on the machine itself. For example, since your tractor was missing the steering column there is a good chance that assuming it was not salvaged for parts, that is why the tractor was parked. If that is the case, your engine might run like a top as is. Like we talked about in class, start off by fixing what's broken. Don't rip into anything unless you have a pretty good idea it is problematic. Usually machines stop running for 1 reason, not several. If you can get it going again then you can start looking into wear issues one at a time.
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502 Posts
Mr. Slaback, would a series 2 crankshaft work in a series one?. I will look for that bore gage as well. I personally think it would be worth rebuilding if I can find a series 2 crankshaft that will work and if I can get some rings for it
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Mike
Not meant to be intimidating but it is a little louder than normal basically because of the dual exhaust. I fabricated the mufflers with internal baffles to keep it somewhat quiet. Originally the KT17 exhausted was out through the front of the grill, which was too hot for the plastic chute on the MTD Blower
Doug
Not meant to be intimidating but it is a little louder than normal basically because of the dual exhaust. I fabricated the mufflers with internal baffles to keep it somewhat quiet. Originally the KT17 exhausted was out through the front of the grill, which was too hot for the plastic chute on the MTD Blower
Doug
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Tommyhawk, which thread is this?
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