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Discussion Starter · #81 · (Edited)
Not sure yet but I think the pan on the K321 in the 140 will work on the K321 I took out of the 3 wheeler. If so, I can use that engine after all and that would make me happy Edit: turned out the 140 Kohler oil pan wouldn't work at all on the 3 wheeler engine. The block base is completely different).

I finally stopped guessing and started pulling the K321 out of the 140 yesterday so I know what I actually have and what I need. It's all disconnected now except the driveshaft. Two bolts for the driveshaft and the engine will come out. Gotta move some stuff around so I can use the cherry picker on it though. The parking arrangement in my shop is like the maze in Maze Runner. The external size stays the same but the configuration on the inside keeps changing every day.

The 4th engine bolt came loose easier than I expected and then I realized why. I just reached under the engine and blindly removed all 4 bolts that hold the engine down. Went by feel. Didn't actually look at them. Turned out the 4th bolt I removed was actually the oil pan plug. It's the same size bolt head and in almost the same location as the 4th engine mounting bolt. Oil started gushing out as soon as the plug was out, but also a lot of water. That really surprised me. It was completely separated from the oil. I don't know how it got in there to start with though. The 140 has supposedly sat inside grandpa's old lawn shed for the last half century. But even if it got left outside at some point I don't see how that much water would end up in the pan. However it got in there though.. it's not a good sign. The engine will rotate but the rod is busted (Edit: it was actually the balance gears that broke. The rod seems to be fine). The engine sometimes jams just before one complete rotation. So the cylinder could be in pretty bad shape with a seized piston. Won't know till the head comes off. Edit: piston is actually fine and moves as it should)

If the 14 HP from the 3 wheeler still won't work I'm pretty sure I can come up with some sort of adapter to bolt the 12 HP Ford engine to the 140 driveshaft. But like I said I don't really wanna do that because it's grandpa's 140. No shortcuts or improvisation. I want it in to be in original working order the way it was when he last used it. Specifically.. the same working condition it was in on the day I scared the hell out of him when he was mowing with it. An odd bit of nostalgic thinking I know.. but that particular memory means a lot to me. I'm sure it meant a lot to him to when I got him too, heh heh :D. Nobody likes have the **** scared out of them but he took it like a man.(y)
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
Your posts are always helpful. (y)

There definitely are a lot of different K series configurations. Just on the flywheel, there's the 10 amp and 15 amp versions on the back side, and 2 and 4 bolt on the front. I came across one flywheel that had a 4 bolt configuration, but the bolt circle (square) was something like 1/4 - 1/2" larger. Couldn't really see the difference until you tried to bolt the 140 drive hub to it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #84 ·
He was mowing the highschool grounds with the 140 when I happened to come along. I was around 16 and not as safety conscious as I am 50 years later :rolleyes: . I saw him but he didn't see me so I commando'd over to where he was and when he made a turn to go the other way I scooted up behind him and grabbed his ribs and roared loudly in his ear. I knew I got him good because his feet flew up :D. What I didn't know was that it was only a week after the incident where he leaned over to pick up a pop can from the seat without getting off. So then the 140 suddenly started moving on its own and he fell off. His pant leg got snagged on the deck somehow and he got dragged across the road from the school and into some lady's flowerbed. I have his accident proneness genes but I haven't had that happen. Yet.

When I was telling my uncle who also worked at the highschool about it he said 'You what?!' and told me about the flowerbed thing.

That's quite an intro...don't leave us dangling...what did you do to Senor Rumpa? Mouse in the coffee cup?
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
My dad had at least some of grandpa's genes too. One day he was power washing the combine and had the reel turning. Bad idea, I know. The pressure hose somehow got caught on the reel and dad ended up trapped between the hose and the combine. The hose was up around his chest to start with and kept tightening up on him more and more and was moving downward too and eventually stripped his clothes off except for his shirt. He was wearing bib overalls and the shoulder straps gave up fairly quickly and down they went. Dad always went commando too :rolleyes:. My mother happened to look out the kitchen window and saw him standing there with his overalls down around his ankles and thought OMG he's finally lost his marbles and is washing the combine naked. Then she realized what was happening and ran out and shut the combine off and saved the day. I am not embellishing this at all btw. Not one iota. I'm just describing what my parents both said happened and it doesn't need any spicing up at all.
 

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Wow...that's quite a memory!
When grandpap Herman Humphrey returned from trench service with Pershing's AEF he learned a bad aftereffect of being gassed over there...occasional grand maul seizures.
He was plowing for a neighbor, who noticed the tractor off course and unmanned...circling around. They found Herman lying in the field unconscious...the rig had passed close by his head on its last pass, clipping his scalp/ear. If they hadn't shown up when they did Herman would've been plowed under by the rig on its next circle around. After that he went to work in the grease pit at the Ford house, fixing engines, etc.
Proof positive of angels over your shoulder...
 

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Discussion Starter · #88 · (Edited)
Can't just swap oil pans. The K321 out of the 3 wheeler has a different block. It was originally in a Toro groundskeeper mower. If you look at the 1st pic you'll see it's quite a bit wider at the base so the sump style oil pan on the original K321 now won't work on the 3 wheeler engine. I'm trying to identify some of the various differences between the vintage 12 to 16 HP K series Kohlers in this thread (aka the 'big block Kohlers' as the golf cart guys refer to them). Hopefully somebody will be able to make use of the info. I'm gonna pull the K321 out of the 1200 CC next. I'll post the relative particulars for it too.

So.. at the moment I'm back at square one. Neither of the spare Kohlers in these pics will work without some hackery. The 1200 CC engine has a sump style oil pan like the K321 in the 140 so maybe it'll fit the bill. Won't know fer sure till I pull it. Surely with four K series engines on hand I can make something work. Might end up having to rebuild the original K321 but I'm not gonna do that in the near future. It would be a winter project if I go that route.
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And out it comes. Was a pretty easy job.
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Discussion Starter · #89 · (Edited)
Edit: the yellow roll around cabinet the Ford engine is sitting on used to be the lectern in council chambers at the municipality where I worked. Anyone who addressed council used it. It had the cheesy fake wood grain furniture often had back then and also had a fancy sloped top on it. I cut that off and put a flat piece in it's place, painted it and put casters on the bottom so I could roll it around.

So to review.. the blue K301 on the left is out of a Ford LT120, the middle K321 I just rehabbed is out of a Toro golf course mower and the K321 on the right is out of grandpa's H1 140. The K301 out of the 1200 CC will be joining these 3 soon.
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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
Aha! I knew I had more K532 parts somewhere. This is the oil pan/starter and heads off the engine with a crumbled cam gear and a few other small parts. There's also a 10 HP Tecumseh I forgot I even had. It's out of a Roper snowblower. It needs a carb but is otherwise fine. I have no use for it though. The blower was the exact same model JD sold at one time.
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I was looking at the pulling site (Kohlers) and you can convert a wide base, but I really have no idea why you would. (They say to fit it in an older Cub puller, but I'm still missing why you would do that other than the "I can" reasoning. Just get a narrow base block and go.

If you have a decent machine shop available, they can bore that one. Pull head and let's see what the bore looks like, before you rule it out. These old girls are pretty tough, CI > aluminum rods. :)

The one I have in my 140, was out of the mall rat, it was frozen pretty solid with mice "Stuff" and rusty/crusty and nasty looking, but it works fine now. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
Thanks Drafter(y). The K321 in the 140 has a pulley like that at the flywheel end. It's a single pulley though and appears to be intended for a starter/generator.

A couple of pics, let me know if you need anything specific. This is the broken rod motor out of my '73.
 

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Discussion Starter · #93 ·
Was hoping to just drop a good 12 or 14 HP Kohler in it and go mowing. If I can't come up with a K combo that will work for the 140 I'll have to rebuild the original K321. Don't wanna get into that right now though.

I was looking at the pulling site (Kohlers) and you can convert a wide base, but I really have no idea why you would. (They say to fit it in an older Cub puller, but I'm still missing why you would do that other than the "I can" reasoning. Just get a narrow base block and go.

If you have a decent machine shop available, they can bore that one. Pull head and let's see what the bore looks like, before you rule it out. These old girls are pretty tough, CI > aluminum rods. :)
 

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Thanks Drafter(y). The K321 in the 140 has a pulley like that at the flywheel end. It's a single pulley though and appears to be intended for a starter/generator.
I think that pulley is also for an old timey rope starter... 🤪 (hilarious to even contemplate)
 

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I’ve drained more water out of snowblower engines than I care to think about. All of them have ran well after that, afaik,… I’m tending to think the metal retains a light coat of oil and the water just sits in there. Now I’m not going to go add water to my engines to experiment but I don’t think it’s the end of the world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #96 · (Edited)
So as it turns out the shaft stub on the back of the Ford engine actually does come off. I just wasn't being persuasive enough. I feared I might crack the center of the flywheel though. Probably not but I went with a series of not very hard smacks anyway. Keep in mind there was no apparent separation between the stub and the flywheel at all even after quite a bit of tapping and prodding looking for the slightest hint that the stub should come off. It didn't make sense to me that it was a one piece deal though. So I started giving it some harder smacks sideways and up and down on the end of the shaft. I used a small piece of 2x4 and a mini sledge. I find an easy swing with something heavy is better than taking a hard swing with something light. So that's what I did. But again nothing happened. So I started smacking the 2x4 pretty hard. My definition of pretty hard is hitting something with enough force to drive a nail into a 2x4. But anyway, still no sign it was coming apart so I gave it a couple pissed off wallops and presto, I finally saw a faint separation outline around the stub shaft flange. A couple smackity-smacks later and off it came. Have you guys ever notice the last wallop is always the one that gets the job done? Can't be a coincidence. So now I have a 1 3/16" stub shaft on the shelf I'll never use. Probably. Better not take a chance and get rid of it though. (Edit: I'm using that stub shaft as an adapter for the 140 driveshaft connection, which I didn't want to do but now I am.)
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Can you imagine?
I think that pulley is also for an old timey rope starter... 🤪 (hilarious to even contemplate)
 

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Discussion Starter · #97 · (Edited)
Yah I'm a natural pessimist about such things. I enjoy being wrong about that stuff though. Haven't looked yet but I'm assuming the piston won't be moving because the rod is busted (Edit: the rod and piston are in fact fine).

I’ve drained more water out of snowblower engines than I care to think about. All of them have ran well after that, afaik,… I’m tending to think the metal retains a light coat of oil and the water just sits in there. Now I’m not going to go add water to my engines to experiment but I don’t think it’s the end of the world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #100 ·
I hope you guys can follow along on my willy nilly approach to this re-power. I'm kinda confused myself. :rolleyes: :p

If the 12V clutch can be transferred to the K301 Ford engine, or the one on it now can be used, it looks like I'll be using this engine to power the 140. So another refurb coming up. I put a kit in the original carb on this engine but it still ran really bad so I bought a chinese carb for it and it's been starting and running good since then. The 2 HP drop won't be an issue. The 140 will only do some token mowing so I can pretend it's not just a toy and I actually need it.
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