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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
How much room is there above the starter, in front of the alternator? Pics look like the pump might squeeze in there driven by a longer shaft, you get the idea.
Currently exploring that option, but having the fan belt drive a pulley.

Like a serpentine belt on a car, the pulley would be driven off the back aide of the belt.

I really want the pump as low as possible so the pump inlet is “flooded” rather than trying to draw from a tank mount lower than the pump.

But JD isn’t making this easy, every square mm seems to be crammed with something…
 

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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
Well this is not going well.

no room under the alternator/behind the starter. The pump itself will fit in the space, the lovejoy and pulley drive will not. It might fit with a direct pulley drive on the pump, but thats a good way to kill the seals and bearings at an accelerated rate. Not enough room to sneak a drive shaft past the starter either. At least not without it being directly inline with the alternator, which won’t work for driving the pump.

its beginning to look like it won’t fit/work over the battery either. Same issue with the lovejoy and pulley drive making it stick out front too much. It woukd have to be out past the grill once the hood is installed. Not to mention the issue of not having the pump inlet flooded. Thats another early killer of hydraulic pumps.

The other side can fit the pump, but same problem with the length of the lovejoy and pulley drive.

I’m rapidly running out of options here….I may be stuck using the oem hydraulics for the loader. Thats not a horrible solution, but its not “optimal” either…
 

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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
Can't gear drive it off flywheel starting gear?
Thought about that. I don’t want to put that kind of constant wear on that gear. Its not designed to operate that way.

I even considered running a nylon gear on it, but it just won’t work.

not to mention, that large ring gear would overdrive the pump on a smaller gear. Pump is only rated to a max 3650 rpm. I’d have to run a gear train thats 1:1, which is obviously waay to large a pump gear.

decent suggestion though.
 

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I'm guessing you can't sleep at night with all these thoughts banging around in the noggin? Ben Franklin didn't sleep much, when he had an idea he would get up and work on it. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #46 · (Edited)
So, I believe I’m going to be investigated the last (or near last) possible location.

The x750 has the crank damper mounted to the rear and the pump drive shaft is mounted via a flexible coupling to this “damper”.

What I’m thinking is a steel pulley (or sheave if you prefer) sandwiched between the shaft and the flex coupling. Since its on the crank snout, the shaft (and proposed pulley) rotates at engine speed. That pulley will drive a belt to a pulley that would drive the lovejoy and then the pump.

Good points are the pump will be mounted below the reservoir so the inlet is flooded and lots of space under the tractor to mount the pump. Lots of room to make a bearing housing to hold the shaft for the lovejoy coupler.

bad points? Well, I suppose being doen under the tractor opens it up to the possibility of being damaged by a rock or something and its a dirtier external environment than under hood somewhere.

Be a couple hours before I get out to the garage to check it out, but I’m hopeful…
 

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Other than it being externally dirty, system will be closed and should be fine. I’m thinking you’ll have to mount some kind of pulley on prop shaft to drive pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
Haven’t been under the tractor yet but started building a 4” pulley on the lathe.

That will get sandwiched on the drive shaft and drive a belt to the “remote mount” pump/pulley.

it should bolt right up as it will only add about 1/8” to the drive shaft and there’s more than an inch of adjustment left back at the transmission spline.

Still working with fingers crossed….this seems like the last possibility for an aux pump.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
motherf…..errr……ather.

Man, JD does not make anything easy!

crawled under the tractor with the pulley blank. Was a major pain getting the drive shaft loose at the flex coupling, but after a bit of “gymnastics” it relented.

Once out, it became obvious the 4.25” pulley is not going to work.

First point is the drive shaft is super close to the fan shroud housing on the radiator. Its so close you can actually see where the flex coupling has actually rubbed the fan shroud a couple times from slight deflections under load. So even a steel pulley thats only the diameter of the flex coupling is going to absolutely trash the shroud. I though about making an offset adapter to move the pulley further back, but then its just going to hit things like the radiator tanks or other assorted frame braces and/or mechanical bits.
That might be able to be worked around, but point two kills it all over again

Point two is that the bolts through the flex coupler are far enough out that you can’t bolt through the new sheave without running 6 bolts through the V of the pulley. That, obviously, means you can’t run a v belt on it.

The final nail in the coffin (point three) is under the tractor there is virtually no space to mount the pump. Between frame bracing, mechanical bits and hyd lines theres not enough open space to put the drive and pump up there. Even if I could get the drive pulley mounted to the shaft the pump would have to hang below the frame and I’m not keen to have it that exposed to possible impacts. Theres also the challenge of making sure that wouldn’t interfere with the 54HC deck.

Using the rear end of the drive shaft is not an option as it slides on to a splined shaft and secures with pinch bolts. Even if you could somehow mount a pulley to the splined shaft, theres enough bits and bobs sticking out of the transaxle that the pulley would be hitting them or pressed hard up against them.

I’m getting terribly vexed here……
 

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Breath in, breath out, repeat. Hey, it's Christmas eve, eat drink and enjoy family, tractor will be there later. We will all be watching the progress. Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 · (Edited)
Breath in, breath out, repeat. Hey, it's Christmas eve, eat drink and enjoy family, tractor will be there later. We will all be watching the progress. Tom
I’m at the point where I may abandon the aux pump idea and just run the loader off the tractor hydraulics. It will probably be slow with the 2.5” cylinders, but I’m feeling backed into a corner now and don’t see many ways out of it.

Wife and I are having a pretty laid back Christmas. Neither of us felt like doing much of anything. No lights or decorations outside, only a small table top tree and no presents. Wife is usually big on Christmas but even she’s not feeling it this year. I think we’re just tired of it all being “over commercialized” and all the covid stuff isn’t helping with where our minds are either. We’re just spending the time together and enjoying being together.
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 · (Edited)
I think I’ve got one last idea and if this doesn’t work, I’m going to give up and use the stock hydraulics.

Tomorrow, I’ll crawl back under the tractor and see of making an adapter that moves the sheave further back will work. Basically, something that bolts to the flex coupling bolts, fits the driveshaft down a center bore and holds a 3 1/4 sheave on the back end.

Not holding out a lot of hope, seeing how this rig has foiled me at every turn so far….maybe it will relent and make it a merry christmas for me!

;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #53 ·
So, I've given up (for the moment) on installing an aux pump. I'm going to build the loader and use the OEM hydraulics for now.

But, I'm not exactly giving up on an aux pump. Just putting it off until a later date. Here's the plan once the physical loader is built:

Plan is to use the mid mount pto, which runs at 2000 rpm. That's a little too low for my current new pump, which is rated at 5.2 gpm @3650 rpm max and 2.9 gpm at 2000 rpm. I'd rather have a bit more gpm to run the to 2.5" lift cylinders. The OEM hydraulics are rated at a total flow of 4.5 gpm, but it's highly likely the gpm at the implement ports is a fair bit lower. JD always seems to highly prefer pressure go to the steering first, which means there's probably a priority valve (or similar) in there somewhere reducing pressure available to the implements.

I also happen to have an older Case hydraulic pump. That sucker is actually smaller than my new pump but rated at approx 8-9 gpm around 2500 rpm, so it should be good for around 5-6 gpm at 2000 rpm. I'm thinking about using this pump for the loader hydraulics with around a 1000-1500 psi system relief. Having the the aux pump also means it's an "on demand" system. Good for reducing wear on the aux pump. Just have to remember to run it every now and then to keep the fluid circulated and things lubricated.

For mounting, I'm going to explore mounting the pump up inside the frame rails and driving it with a shaft from the mid pto to the pump lovejoy. I figure I'll be removing the deck when I use the loader so a dis-connectable drive shaft to the pump shouldn't interfere with anything. It just means I'm have to crawl under there to install/remove the drive shaft. Same with the drive shaft to the front PTO: won't be using the loader with the snowblower installed.

So, that's where it sits for now. Mechnaical build full steam ahead, hydraulic system on hold until a later date.
 

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Discussion Starter · #54 · (Edited)
So, looking over the spaces available on the tractor again for pump mounting. I went back to a spot I had written off a while ago and it looks like I may have enough room to mount the smaller pump up underneath the alternator and drive it off the acc belt drive. It would require about a 3" flat pulley, but it looks like it may work. Another plus is there's no installing/removing the pto shaft from the pump every time I install the front PTO or the mid deck and there's lots of places to bolt a bracket to in that location.

Said area:

Automotive tire Hood Motor vehicle Bumper Automotive design


Kinda seems like it was made just for that spot. At least it fits in (more or less) nice and neatly. Building the brackets and mounts isn't an issue for me, the question will be if I can build a pulley big enough to reach the acc belt yet small enough to clear the components (hoses, block, etc) in that space. The biggest issue that jumps out at me is I can't get a 50% wrap around the pump pulley, which means it's likely it will get into slippage under load. An idler would help with that, but there's no room above of below to mount an idler.
It also means the pump will be (essentially) running at engine rpm instead of the reduced PTO rpm. That means I'll get the full 8-9 gpm when running the engine at full throttle. Idle it down to 2000 rpm and I'll still be getting around 5 gpm @ 1000 psi.

I'll explore the pump location possibility as time goes on, but concentrating on the hard parts build first and running it off the oem hydraulics. But it looks hopeful.
 

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How much heat is the pump going to blow off? I ask that having burned myself on the shutoff valve a few times, before I smartened up. I'm concerned about introducing a lot of heat right near the alternator and starter, not to mention wiring.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
How much heat is the pump going to blow off? I ask that having burned myself on the shutoff valve a few times, before I smartened up. I'm concerned about introducing a lot of heat right near the alternator and starter, not to mention wiring.
Shouldn’t be much. Hydraulic make heat when tou work them, basically giving it something to resist.

Under zero load, heat generation should be minimal. Loader work is short and infrequent, which also means minimal heat buildup.

But, should the aux hyd system create too much heat, I’ll just throw one of the hyd coolers I have kicking around into the return lines and call it a day.
 

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Discussion Starter · #57 · (Edited)
Toying around with the loader mockup:

Tire Wheel Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design


You can see the quick attach plate I’ll make for it to hold the bucket and any other attachments I make for it down the road.

The towel is just there for scratch protection while moving things around.

Still fighting with the hyd cylinders and fitment. I may have to jag it in and buy new lift cylinders as the ones I have are just too long to fit the space available. Have to play around with it a bit more before admitting defeat.

The curl cylinders fit just fine as is.

I really need to get some steel to build the subframe, but just not feeling like going anywhere or spending money right now. I could use what I already have lying around, but I also don’t want this to look patchwork or like something that was “made to work”.

The subframe postioning looks like I’ll be attaching it to the frame just below the engine mounts. Frame is nice and solid at that point and as a side bonus, the cab has a 1/2” thick by 3” wide cross brace bolted to the frame at that point too. Looks like a good solid point to attach a subframe all around. I will also carry the subframe back to the transaxle so it should actually offer more support to the frame center section. I’m back and forth on whether I want to continue the subframe to the front of the tractor or just build a cross brace to the front like the 45 loaders had. In fact, I’ve run across pictures of 44 loaders that have the same tower brace as the 45’s. Must be late production 44’s before the 45 came out.

I’m pretty sure a length or two of 1/4” wall 1.75” square tube would work for most of it. It’s just a matter of getting my butt in gear to go and get it.

Maybe I’ll switch over to making the overhead panel since I’ve got more than enough 1/8 aluminum plate to build it all already hanging around….
 

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Have to play around with it a bit more before admitting defeat.
From what I have seen, you do not admit defeat readily:)
 

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Just to throw it out there, another option (and potentially a much simpler one) would be to plan to use the internal hydraulics and smaller diameter cylinders on the main boom - especially as you may need to get new cylinders. Just eyeballing it, the 2 1/2" cylinders will be able to lift way, way more than is safe anyway. For the curl, you could go to a single cylinder on a centered mount and that would allow you to reuse what you have, improve curl speed, and have a cylinder left over for another project.

For reference (and apologies if you already know this) the 40 loader came stock with 1.5" boom cylinders, and 1.75" curl cylinders. The 1.5"s were a little anemic, so I replaced them with 2" cylinders. The lift is a little slow, but not horrible, and I can lift as much as I'd ever feel safe lifting. The 45 loader on the newer machines upgraded to 1.75" boom cylinders, and I'm not sure about the curl.
 
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