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Discussion Starter #1
no whats it worth posts allowed

you can use ebay and craigslist to get a feeling of what they go for

430 is the biggest diesel LGT of that era and is the top model IMO

I own a 430 and a 420. I would keep the 430 over the 420 any day.

332 would be my second choice
 

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Sorry if that is not allowed. Might I ask why? You guys are the experts on these and thought you might help me get on board.

I have a good feel for the 318s as they come up a lot on CL, and sometimes a 430 but the solid-door steel cozy cab and the 60" deck seem to be harder to get a feel for value.
 

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I know it was not allowed on the old site, but now that it is an issue and I can not find anywhere it says you can't, maybe we can get a ruling on it from the moderators.
 

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Good questions on the "What's it worth" posts. On the old site, it was totally prohibited, on all sections. Right now with the new site, it looks like we only applied it to the Classified section. And I'm okay with that. I would like to look into some of the old rules and guidelines, and we may be having a poll to see what the membership here refers. Myself, the owners, and the moderators have to discuss this out into detail, but I would like this to be decided more democratically and we're thinking about the poll(s). Right now we're leave this thread alone since technically it doesn't violate the rules since we only included these type rules into the classified section.
 

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Thanks Terry for joining in and I'm good with whatever WFM decides. I think the confusion comes from GTT's rules which I understand allows this. I thought when we switched over, we were going by their rules.
 

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Personally I am against WIW adds. I look forward to the survey. It's on of many reasons I do not like MTF. Pricing is much to nuanced to be captured in a forum. they also make the market much harder to deal with both as a buyer and a seller. they also lead to Items either being sniped by lurkers who do not post, or generate other interest.

as an example, there was a rf posted locally, it was over priced IMO, but I was in contact with the seller, and having productive negotiations. It got posted on MTF as a WIW thread, and the seller got bombarded with interest, and I'm sure he saw the thread, or atleast the highest numbers on it, and stopped negotiating at all, directly quoted the MTF thread, and raised the price he was willing to discuss. I broke off discussions, but it still took a couple months to sell, or the seller to give up, i'm not sure which. The seller thought every 65 was worth top dollar, even though his was far from original and missing key add-ons that made the other one shown worth a lot more then his was, someone said a 65 110 is worth $xxxx, and that was taken to mean all 65's were worth that, no matter the condition, or attachments.

There are to many parts on these tractors, that are in varied states of wear to be able to say any model is worth $xxxx, a 430 could be worth next to nothing if the entire thing is tired and sloppy, even if it has low hours, and without inspecting every part, and finding how much it costs to get them repaired you cannot determine what its worthh. That is without respect to region, season, or the type of marketing the seller is doing, and all the other variables that go into it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
problem with whats it worth posts is that everyone will have an opinion from their area which will not be correct for everyone. then you will have opinions on whats best then flaming begins.

maybe an area for this purpose would be good but not in the repair sections.
 

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Wow, I hope I didn't uncork one here. Certainly not my intent as a new member and I respect all opinions. I too have been "sniped" several times on other forums so I get that.

But I hope that we can stay on topic here and not make this a discussion about forum rules since the moderators have weighed in.
 

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One thing we have to remember here, our members on WFM are far more knowledgeable than the guys on MTF, who over half of them couldn't tell you what engine a '65 110 had in it originally. MTF tries to be a Walmart of the tractor world, yeah they may have those categories but not too many working there know their own department. It's like going to Lowes and asking a plumbing related question to some high school kid who couldn't tell an electric conduit from a PVC pipe (think 3 Stooges and the joining a water line with an electric conduit skit).
 

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I thought a while back it was silly to have NO what's it worth ads.
However the more time I spend out there on other sites the more I understand why it was prohibited here.
Like mentioned above some other sites are the worst for those types of posts.
People who are not informed of the market,do not understand how logistics change the value,and finally a misunderstanding of older models in general.

As for a poll I am open to whatever is decided.
I would vote to allow it only because like stated,the most knowledgeable for older model equipment is right here.
Keeping in mind this is an open forum and opinions will vary.


AJ
 

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AJ,

Thanks for starting this thread. I believe that the only indicators of the 'appropriate' pricing of equipment is its condition and the use you are going to put it to...not being a collector or valuing rarity for its own sake. Given that, it is unlikely that those of us in one section of the country would be able to give meaningful market pricing for unseen equipment far across the land. I have in the past been pretty forthcoming about how much I actually PAID for something, and of course our classified section requires we include asking prices for items that are posted for sale -- those can be pretty good indicators for those interested in market valuation if you follow this site regularly. We all look for the "bargain" and occasionally actually find one...my best buys include the 2004 34 HP diesel x495 with 3-point for $1800, and a few finds in the vintage models as well...but those do not represent market pricing very well.

The membership of this site represents a huge database of specific knowledge on these little green machines. Some of the members here are making at least a second income on savvy buying and selling -- so they may not want to participate in 'what's it worth' discussions from both a buyers' and a sellers' perspective. They can choose one view or sit it out as they choose (as we all can...) should the site rules change to allow such discussions.

Chuck
 

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I'll weigh in with the newbie outsider view (and since I guess I stepped in this as my first post.)

What is the concern over allowing this? seems like three reasons have been given: 1) you can't give an accurate answer for various reasons and 2) you might be negotiating with that buyer/seller and they now have an unrealistic opinion which tanks your deal, and 3) someone might read the thread and snipe the deal on you.

I don't mean any offense, but so what? On my diesel VW forum (very well run respectful forum) we quickly learned that CA doesn't equal MI prices, etc. And we always have the option to look away and not respond.

But if you are concerned about this upsetting your hobby/business of buying and selling for profit, I'm a free market guy and always think more open information is better.

The other thing you need to be aware of, is that you get to a slippery slope with no "what's it worth" threads. Does that include "is this a good deal" and "I'm going to sell at this price what do you think" etc kinds of threads? It gets very hard and messy and irks nice people to try to set this balance.

2 cents from an outside viewpoint. At least that's what I think my opinion is worth. ;)

Mike
 

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From a moderator viewpoint, I have to uphold whatever rules and policies that have been set forth, rather I agree with them or not. I have been on the fence for some time on "WIW" posts, and continue to be so. But I have to uphold the rule that is set in place until we do change it.

One other reason why not to have "WIW" posts is that someone can give the wrong value, either way, and then that gets singled out and becomes the said "value". I see tons of Craig's List ads that have very high inflated prices and when question the seller will say it's what he's seen on sites like this one. And he thinks he's become an expert on it now. So his item sits without no takers and now he's become irate over the offers he is getting claiming they're trying to low ball me. Recently on the RF Facebook group page a seller listed prices of $4500 and $6500 for a '67 112 and a '66 112H claiming that's what he has heard were reasonable values for this (btw, the '66 112H did NOT have a motor). When brought to his attention that his prices were very unreasonable he began to get irate, and claim how rare these were based on his research. His research was from sites that allowed "WIW" questions and he also got that rare meant $$$$$$ (not necessary so in the real world). A '63 110 will bring considerably more money than a '66 112H, even when the '66 112H had lesser production numbers. Rare doesn't necessary mean $$$$$.

Sorry for going off-topic, but my point is that what's it worth posts can lead to wrong values on these machines since everyone's an expert.

I would like to start a poll here, in the recent future, on this and other rules I've seen controversial over the years on WFM.
 

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There have been a few "what's it worth" posts in the past. None allowed in the classifieds.

Could end up being bombarded with "WIW" posts and create more Moderator work should they become the norm.

Consider this: Say a member has something listed for sale here in the WFM classifieds, priced at so and so. Would there be (allowed) related posts asking "what's it worth"? If yes, then what? Look out. I'll vote NO but be OK with whatever is decided. Bo
 

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Thanks for the pat on the back Chuck But I didn't start it.
Just the first post on page 2.LOL.



No offense taken Mike.All opinions welcome.
However to me the issue is not all of us have deep pockets.
So a misinformed seller by $5-700 can result in me not being able to afford the machine.

One of my favorite lines from these types of posts is,
"If I were closer I would give you $..... in a heartbeat."
That drives the price of a certain item up when in reality,it could be next door and Joe Blow probably wouldn't give that.
I guess my issue is a LOT of people are just talk.Especially when they know no one will call them on it.
When I see someone post that I wish I could see the seller say,
"I am driving right by your house next week.I'll bring it to you".
Would like to see the look on their face then.LOL.

However all in all like I said I would still vote for it.
I think this site "may" not be like some other sites.
Not only are the people knowledgeable but there a few folks here who don't mind calling "BS" when it applies.


AJ
 
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AJ,

Yes, I thought I had edited it to 'contributing to' rather than starting, but I guess I did not save the changes...(and I have read the entire thread.) :)

I am not so sure that opening up to an unrestricted WIW policy wouldn't give the occasional seller as much of a voice as the regulars in this hobby that might have a much larger experience base and less of a 'dog in the fight' mentality. Regional issues will always impact values, but never so much as the condition and maintenance history of the equipment -- which is a real challenge to ascertain at a distance for vintage equipment. Lastly, in my own case my direct involvement in buying and selling transactions can become stale...if I found a good deal on a barn find 140 in 2001 is that number really relevant today?

Chuck
 

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I started this hobby out watching and searching Ebay to see what stuff was worth, what parts were needed, collecting pictures, images from literature etc.

Paid off as I can spot odd ball attachments in junk yards, know when a tractor is original or butched up, and a ballpark of what stuff is worth.

If it has JD green paint its worth something to someone.

I agree if we open it up there is going to be a lot of threads and a lot of opinions out there and prices are regional for sure. If we do, would be nice to dump it in a separate section so don't have to weed through it all to find technical data.
 
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