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Any suggestions of what is the best type of antifreeze to use in the 332. I just rebuilt the water pump and need to get it ready for winter.
Thanks, Dan
Thanks, Dan
Yanmar diesel Antifreeze?
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3,271 Posts
I just use the JD stuff. That way there is no question if it is right or wrong.
I'll 2ed the JD Cool-Gard pre-mix, can't go wrong, just fill it up.
I don't think the little Yanmars are wet liner engines, those are where you need DCA as the detonation pressure wave makes the cylinder liner vibrate faster than coolant can flow around it and this cavitation causes pitting of the exterior of the liner. Dry liner engines have the liner inserted into the cast block, the coolant doesn't touch the liner and the block material for the most part absorbs the pressure wave and stops the harmonic vibrations that cause cavitation.
My 2 cents
Tom
I don't think the little Yanmars are wet liner engines, those are where you need DCA as the detonation pressure wave makes the cylinder liner vibrate faster than coolant can flow around it and this cavitation causes pitting of the exterior of the liner. Dry liner engines have the liner inserted into the cast block, the coolant doesn't touch the liner and the block material for the most part absorbs the pressure wave and stops the harmonic vibrations that cause cavitation.
My 2 cents
Tom
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770 Posts
Thanks all for your input, probably will go with the JD CG.
TOM D. - You are correct about the dry liner vs wet liner diesels, but parent bore engines like the Cummins 5.9L in Ram trucks and PSD's, the 7.3 in both IDI & DI versions, 6.0, 6.4, 6.7, & 6.9L are all parent bore meaning the pistons run on the block castings and need DCA.
Dennis,
You are correct on the Ford Power Strokes, they require SCA's (Supplemental Coolant Additives) as they suffer from cavitation however the B series Cummins, (the family that the 5.9 Dodge is part of) according to factory service bulletins, do not suffer from cavitation and don't need additives. There is debate as to the value of adding SCA's to all engines irregardless if they cavitate or not and the possibility of causing slow heat transfer to the coolant because of the layering affect of the SCA that isn't stripped away regularly by cavitation.
Here is the Cummins service notice on SCA's:
Operation and Maintenance Manual, B Series Engines, Bulletin No. 3810205.
The B Series engine normally does not require SCA because the engine normally does not experience cast-iron cavitation corrosion. The Cummins B Series engine has not shown any tendency toward cast-iron cavitation corrosion. Also, the B Series engine does not have an integral coolant filter.
Therefore, the B Series engine coolant recommendation is to use low-silicate antifreeze meeting ASTM D4985 specifications and to drain and replace it every 320,000 km [200,000 mi], 2 years, or 6000 hours of operation (whichever occurred first).
You are correct on the Ford Power Strokes, they require SCA's (Supplemental Coolant Additives) as they suffer from cavitation however the B series Cummins, (the family that the 5.9 Dodge is part of) according to factory service bulletins, do not suffer from cavitation and don't need additives. There is debate as to the value of adding SCA's to all engines irregardless if they cavitate or not and the possibility of causing slow heat transfer to the coolant because of the layering affect of the SCA that isn't stripped away regularly by cavitation.
Here is the Cummins service notice on SCA's:
Operation and Maintenance Manual, B Series Engines, Bulletin No. 3810205.
The B Series engine normally does not require SCA because the engine normally does not experience cast-iron cavitation corrosion. The Cummins B Series engine has not shown any tendency toward cast-iron cavitation corrosion. Also, the B Series engine does not have an integral coolant filter.
Therefore, the B Series engine coolant recommendation is to use low-silicate antifreeze meeting ASTM D4985 specifications and to drain and replace it every 320,000 km [200,000 mi], 2 years, or 6000 hours of operation (whichever occurred first).
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Thanks,Tom,I was getting nervous!
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TOM - The 3.9L & 5.9L CDC B-series (Cummins) engines in the Case/IH Maxxim series tractors have coolant filters which meter in SCA, Wet liner version of the engine. Are the cylinder walls that much thicker in the parent bore engines to not cavitate?
There's some wet liner engines that get by without SCA's too. JD 4010/4020's is one, Allis-Chalmers, etc. But the 855 Cummins is not one of them. Local diesel pump shop rebuilds hundreds of pumps a week, ships them all over the US. I was in there picking up parts several years ago. The parts counter guy said a local trucker rebuilt his 855 Cummins, probably 350 Big Cam. Was in a hurry to get it back on the road, just put tap water in the cooling system. Didn't even make it to the first oil change before it cavitated.
The 903 Cummins V8 I drove for a year or two used to weep about 2 quarts of coolant into the oil every month. That finally caught up with them. All new main & rod bearings plus two new liners & pistons/rings
There's some wet liner engines that get by without SCA's too. JD 4010/4020's is one, Allis-Chalmers, etc. But the 855 Cummins is not one of them. Local diesel pump shop rebuilds hundreds of pumps a week, ships them all over the US. I was in there picking up parts several years ago. The parts counter guy said a local trucker rebuilt his 855 Cummins, probably 350 Big Cam. Was in a hurry to get it back on the road, just put tap water in the cooling system. Didn't even make it to the first oil change before it cavitated.
The 903 Cummins V8 I drove for a year or two used to weep about 2 quarts of coolant into the oil every month. That finally caught up with them. All new main & rod bearings plus two new liners & pistons/rings
Dennis,
I believe the AG versions do include a coolant filter but I don't know if they are additive dispensing or simply a filter.
I'm pretty sure that all the B series (4BT, 6BT and ISB) are parent bore engines. That was the big deal over earlier engines when they announced the series in the early 80's
From what I have read over the years wet liners tend to have high nodular iron content. If this is indeed the case, it makes sense that the PSD's would suffer cavitation as Ford is known for having a high nodular content for the severe duty/ high performance castings. The typical cast iron block tend to have very good damping qualities, which is the case for most castings, and this damping may be part of the reason why Cummins doesn't call for SCA's in the B series.
I've seen plenty of wet sleeve issues over the years. Nothing like chocolate milkshake on the dipstick from a split liner. I will submit they are easier to in-chassis as you can just do cylinder sets rather than pulling the block.
I'm a bit surprised it took 2 years for a 2 qt/m coolant leak to take out the v903. Did you drive that in a Bradley or a boat? (I think the 2 largest populations of that engine because they aren't well liked for road use as most people I know prefer an inline)
Tom
I believe the AG versions do include a coolant filter but I don't know if they are additive dispensing or simply a filter.
I'm pretty sure that all the B series (4BT, 6BT and ISB) are parent bore engines. That was the big deal over earlier engines when they announced the series in the early 80's
From what I have read over the years wet liners tend to have high nodular iron content. If this is indeed the case, it makes sense that the PSD's would suffer cavitation as Ford is known for having a high nodular content for the severe duty/ high performance castings. The typical cast iron block tend to have very good damping qualities, which is the case for most castings, and this damping may be part of the reason why Cummins doesn't call for SCA's in the B series.
I've seen plenty of wet sleeve issues over the years. Nothing like chocolate milkshake on the dipstick from a split liner. I will submit they are easier to in-chassis as you can just do cylinder sets rather than pulling the block.
I'm a bit surprised it took 2 years for a 2 qt/m coolant leak to take out the v903. Did you drive that in a Bradley or a boat? (I think the 2 largest populations of that engine because they aren't well liked for road use as most people I know prefer an inline)
Tom
TOM - I checked my source on the ag ISB 3.9/5.9's, they may be parent bore engines. I thought I had just read they were wet liner's. I'm really surprised C/IH would market a parent bore engine in a tractor. A combine, maybe, a tractor, No.
You're correct on the wet liners being nodular or ductile iron. A centrifugal foundry about 25 miles away makes lots of them. The PSD 7.3L blocks were cast at IH Indy and assembled there. Plain old vanilla gray iron. Yes, it dampens vibration but is weak compared to ductile/nodular iron which also dampens vibration fairly well. The crankshafts on the 351 Cleveland engines were ductile/nodular iron, and drag racers spun the stock cranks up to 8000 RPM or higher.
The 903 I drove was in a '79 White RoadBoss II semi-tractor spec'd and ordered by JD's captive contact carrier. But before the tractors could be delivered the owner of a large MACK dealership bought the trucking company so the company I drove for bought 4-5 of the tractors after they sat on the lot for over two years. They were a decent truck, not real fuel efficient, would have pulled better with many more gear speeds than the 6 forward speeds the first company ordered them with. My company did VERY little preventative maintenance, but that let me put around 140,000-150,000 miles per year on the RBII. After 2+ yrs in the RoadBoss I was assigned an IH S2200 w/ Cummins 290 & 10 spd Road-Ranger. Immediately I wanted my old RoadBoss back... less HP = less speed. And when you get paid by the loaded mile, speed = Dollars per hour.
You're correct on the wet liners being nodular or ductile iron. A centrifugal foundry about 25 miles away makes lots of them. The PSD 7.3L blocks were cast at IH Indy and assembled there. Plain old vanilla gray iron. Yes, it dampens vibration but is weak compared to ductile/nodular iron which also dampens vibration fairly well. The crankshafts on the 351 Cleveland engines were ductile/nodular iron, and drag racers spun the stock cranks up to 8000 RPM or higher.
The 903 I drove was in a '79 White RoadBoss II semi-tractor spec'd and ordered by JD's captive contact carrier. But before the tractors could be delivered the owner of a large MACK dealership bought the trucking company so the company I drove for bought 4-5 of the tractors after they sat on the lot for over two years. They were a decent truck, not real fuel efficient, would have pulled better with many more gear speeds than the 6 forward speeds the first company ordered them with. My company did VERY little preventative maintenance, but that let me put around 140,000-150,000 miles per year on the RBII. After 2+ yrs in the RoadBoss I was assigned an IH S2200 w/ Cummins 290 & 10 spd Road-Ranger. Immediately I wanted my old RoadBoss back... less HP = less speed. And when you get paid by the loaded mile, speed = Dollars per hour.
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646 Posts
Hank, Unless I am reading something wrong, Zerex meets GM1899M which appears in the version of TM1591 that I have as an approved coolant. The other non-Deere coolant listed is GM6038M.
G-05 spec sheet:
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/Zerex_G-05_AFC_Technical_Bulletin.pdf
G-05 spec sheet:
http://www.valvoline.com/pdf/Zerex_G-05_AFC_Technical_Bulletin.pdf
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