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317 Repower with Vanguard

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17K views 33 replies 10 participants last post by  xtinctss  
#1 ·
I have to first start this thread with a HUGE thank you to Dan Dillner for providing me with some of the background and an inordinate amount of help to get me off the ground here.

A friend of mine recently relocated, and gave me his Cub Cadet 2165, it is only a 16hp, but it's in really nice shape with only 400 hrs. I figured it was a huge technological jump from my Onan P218, so why not give it a go?

I started out sourcing the parts I thought I'd need from various places. PTO shaft sleeve from T.H.E. Company, the 841580 Stub Shaft from Briggs, Muffler from S.E.W. Etc. I'll detail that more as I go.

First thing's first; get the Onan out.
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I also separated the driveshaft from the shaft adapter on the Onan. I haven't decided if I want to use the 317 shaft on the Vanguard, as I have larger joints and shafting available (same as used on 318, etc).


I pulled the Vanguard out of the Cub, and started to reconfigure it for my Deere. After removing he Cub driveshaft adapter and screen, I installed the new stub shaft adapter (841580):
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Next, I started working on the PTO adapter plate. I did most of the drilling with a hand drill, as I've never moved the old drill press from my parents' house out to our place... Talk about positional tolerance.... It's made of 1/2" aluminum that I had a scrap of laying around.
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I need to pick up a few bolts tonight on my way home from work, and try to get this bolted up/fitted so that I can make sure I have the engine placement right in the frame.


More to follow!
 
#3 ·
Had I paid a bit more attention to the line drawing of the Vanguard engine, I would have noticed that the bolt pattern is there for the Ogura clutch, no adapter plate needed....

I just need to install spacers to maintain the winding-to-rotor spacing (as mentioned in Dan's write-up as well). Open your eyes, John.
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#4 ·
Captain Dan is definitely a great source for help and info
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That's gonna be a dandy tractor John. I've always liked the looks of the 317's and with an engine transplant like that it's got many years of service left to give now. It would have a preferential parking spot in my shed.


Army
 
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#5 ·
Thanks Army, it will be nice when finished. I'm also working on the H3 and power steering upgrades at the same time.

I haven't resized the pictures yet,but I have the engine fully assembled ready to go in, but am waiting on the steering parts for the column mount and some fittings to plumb everything while I have good access and the tower is off.

Break over the weekend for Easter festivities, but hopefully back at it next week.
 
#8 ·
Muffler from SEW showed up, polished stainless!
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Bolted up the PTO clutch and Installed muffler:
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Tractor as it sits currently. It sure looks like I'm going backwards, doesn't it?
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I had to order some additional parts for steering upgrade, which should be here later this week. Hopefully I'll be able to hit it hard next weekend and get started putting things back together...
 
#10 ·
I had ordered the steering valve mount in order to save myself some time. It showed up yesterday, but I didn't get to cut the ears off. I will basically only be using the flat plate portion with a relief for easier installation/removal. I did have a chance to mock it up in the frame last night.
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I also had time to start "designing" the additional bracing required to mount the valve plate. I too subscribe to the garage-CAD process (Cardboard Aided Design).
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#11 ·
I came home a bit early on Friday afternoon and was able to spend a couple hours in the garage before supper. It's not perfect, but the steering column/valve is no mounted in the frame. The plumbing supplies should arrive today so I can get it plumbed in this week. I also installed the H3 spool valve and plumbed in all the lines (I still need two short hoses and adapters for the rear hydraulics).

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#12 ·
I made considerable headway last night on the plumbing of the hydraulics for both the steering valve and the H3 valve, but have a question around the necessity for a fluid cooler. Does anyone have the fluid temperature data that suggests the addition of a steering system requires one?

I know when I added hydraulic steering to my old trail rig truck that I added one for good measure, but there was considerably more power being produced by the pump and steering cylinder.

Either way, I might provide provisions to add one later in the interest of time at this point.

Next steps are to finish the engine mounting adapters and get the engine installed. Then of course I'll have to tackle the wiring.
 
#13 ·
Now things look like they are going the right direction, I made considerable headway today.

I finished the H3 plumbing, new linkages, and reinstalled the dash tower and steering wheel. Next item of business is the driveshaft. It appears to be a bit too short, so I'm going to cut the ends off and weld them to a longer piece of 1" shafting that I have leftover from another project. After that, the engine can be installed, and wired. After that, a long-overdue garage cleaning. These pictures show how much of a disaster it has erupted into, wowsers!

Ill resize the pictures and post them here later today, I can't seem to figure out how to resize them from my iPad.
 
T
#14 ·
This project is a very interesting and well thought out, John. Your CAD work is remarkable! LOL
Wish I had the guts to do that to my 317. Even with the old Series 1 still in place, my biggest complaint has always been the hard steering.
Hope someone can help with the question about extra fluid cooler. Might be hard to find enough room for it.
Did you consider a longer stub shaft or spacer at the engine so you don't have additional problems should the drive shaft need replacement in the future? I've always thought either the original drive shaft or the stub shaft was about a 1/2" too short.

tommyhawk
 
#15 ·
Thanks Tom, it started as a simple repower, but ended up with what you see here since I was so far into the tractor, yikes!

Here are the pictures from progress over the weekend.
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Looks like the driveshaft yoke had contacted the frame at one point. This is the primary area where clearance is an issue if trying to use the 318+ style joints/yokes. You can also see how tight it is with the hydraulic hoses in there. if I had a 37° flaring tool, I would have used hard lines for a bit better clearance, but couldn't justify the extra $150 expense just for this project.
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I figured out my driveshaft conundrum. I ended up cutting the tube out of the "stock" driveshaft and replaced it with a section of solid 1" shafting that is 1-1/2" longer. I think the driveshaft should be longer even with the Onan, so this was probably not engine-specific...
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I also finished the mounting adapter plates for the engine. Despite the wind advisory this afternoon, I also got some paint splashed on them.
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As soon as they're dry, I'll bolt them up to the engine and reinstall the driveshaft prior to dropping the engine back into the chassis, hopefully for the last time!
 
#17 ·
I didn't get to post this the other day, but I played around with the sheet metal the other night, looks like the hood still fits!

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Need to squeeze the cooler in there and plumb it in before finishing the wiring.

I bought a 420 ignition switch to use the extra two terminals for ground switching to the mangento. I'm working on a wiring diagram and will post it shortly.
 
#18 ·
John, I suggest you use a relay to do that function. In my earlier schematics I used the extra contact on the 318/420 switch but the one thing it does not do is to kill the engine when you get off the seat. If you have my later versions of the schematic it shows adding a relay for this function.

Dan
 
#20 ·
John, The 317 does have a cooling fan to the rear of the hydro. I don't know if you need the cooling radiator or not. I have not had problems with heating on my 317s with the 18HP or 25HP Kohler Command Pro engines. Of coarse they do not have power steering.
 
#21 ·
Dan, I hadn't considered that, but it is important that I maintain integrity of the safety interlocks, so that will be the route I go as well!

Thanks for the heads up!
 
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