[chuckv]

David,

My conversion was to have flexibility of tire choices and use of existing 5 lug rims I had on hand from some GREAT buys locally and at Surplus Center. The bearings are a bit stronger if you use the tapered rollers, but I have also used the JD hubs on unmodified spindles that have the same bearings as the original tractor units. I have never replaced the spindles with the ones that allow for larger inside bearings, but that is another available level of overbuild in the strength department as well.

Here is a shot of two my 322 tractors face to face -- the '92 has 18x8.50-10 tires/rims from a late model SCUT, the '89 has 16x6.50-8 ribbed tires/rims from Surplus Center that I scored for $38 each combo. the take-offs were the two front 10 inch rims/turf tires and a pair of 26x12.00-12 rears on new rims for a total of $125 (all new...!)

Chuck

PS I do like the look as well -- which is why I would choose the five lug configuration to match the rear pattern and not go with the more readily obtained 4 lug hubs and rims.

 

[motiv8]

Chuck, I understand your mods. you referenced costs and deals obtained. My post was more to Ronald's best approach w/ his funds. JMO David

 

[chuckv]

Agreed David,

My post above was answering your first question on why 'people' do this lugged hub conversion, stated from my personal point of view: first to have flexible choice in tire use, secondly to save money (adding the hubs was less than having the tires mounted on standard front rims...) and finally for the 'look' as a distant third priority reason. Strength was not an issue for me, even though I have a Johnny Bucket SR that does not distribute the load as far back to the rear tires/axles as does a frame mounted loader...

I also agree with you that the 400 is plenty stout enough for a loader and similar uses in completely stock trim. I think that the "loader versus front spindle" strength question was at one time a valid one for the very early 3/4 inch spindles in the 1960s -- but does not apply here.

Ron's planing for a future loader should include a front tire choice of perhaps the V61 ribs -- that would be much more directly related to performance and enjoyment of use than the hubs issue...

Chuck

 

[jameszmcnelley]

UP DATE, part 6..I have now built the new king pin spindle set up for my 400 using the smaller 1 inch Northern Tool spindle with square shoulder. the place to drill for the king pin is 1'' in from the edge, the SWEET SPOT as mentioned earlier. now this location applies to this scenario. I used hub assy. from Supply Center and new wheels with 0 offset from etrailer.com. also had to increased king pin length 1'' and add 1'' spacer made from black pipe to go between each steering arm and top of spindle knuckle. this in order to equal the distance of the curve in original spindle. weld the spacer to the top of the knuckle and the underside of the steering arm. these parts, with this process, puts you back in factory position. I also added a 1/4'' thick [back-strap] to top of steering arm on LH side for added strength. I have noticed 400's are prone to crack open at hole for power steering cyl. I have taken lots of pictures of the fab. work. I will post them in a new thread when I learn how and when I am 100% done. {waiting on thrust bearing delivery now} also installed 3'' long bushings in axle king pin holes. again, lots of pics. also got a new design done for TOP LH steering arm to fit the king pin, replacing the old 3/4'' with new 1'' style. by the way, keep an eye out for my new 2 piece drive shaft post for the 400. mine is DONE and it was a success!! It can be taken in and out along with the crank stub without pulling engine or rear end. all I need pull now is LH side screen and seat pan. shaft tested out with dial indicator at only .002 run out!! lots of other 400 mods done and in the works. I haven't even had time to start on the new K-582 mini-block. some may wonder why I am dumping all this time and money in a 400. answer..13 months SOBRIETY! J.Z.M.

 

[striperon]

Congrats on your 13 months, james. You have given a precious gift to the world, ... you.

 

[threeeighteen]

Question: It would seem to me that the weakest part of the factory axle assembly would be the bearings, would it not? I have replaced them before and they reminded me of the wheel bearings from a bicycle--seemed rather puny to me. For that reason it would seem a good move to utilize trailer hubs as the tapered bearings are much stronger, and they can be preloaded to allow no lateral play.
Using a trailer axle stub such as the one from Northern, with the square end, is it possible to just drill a 1" hole through the square end at the correct angle, make a new straight kingpin of the correct length, insert it through the new hole in the stub, weld it up top and bottom,(and add some gussets if desired)?
The thrust bearings sound like a good addition as well.
Utilizing the trailer hubs/axle stubs/bearings would seem to be a worthwhile modification for a FEL tractor. And again it would seem that the greatest advantage for the work and expense for such a modification lies in the utilization of the tapered bearings. Everything else would seem to me to already be plenty strong enough. I would definitely want 4 ply or greater tires as tires would seem to me to be the limiting factor in weigh carrying capacity.
I bought a Case 648 several years ago. One of the first things I did to it was take care of the obviously leaking wheel bearing seals. Upon disassembly I discovered that what I was dealing with were standard trailer hubs and bearings. That fact greatly impressed me. If you are familiar with the Case 646 or 648 (same, except the 648 had power steering), you would know how heavy-duty they are. They are a Loader tractor designed from the ground up, not a tractor with a loader added. I would guess that the 648 weighs almost twice what a 318 does. It had 1" diameter spindles. If that setup was adequate for the 648, it should do for a Deere tractor.
If I can get my daughter to help me figure out how to downsize photos, I'll post one of the 648.

 

[threeeighteen]

here is the case 648

(Message edited by treed on December 26, 2013)

 

[motiv8]

Steven N,
Traditionally, tapered or Timken roller brgs aren't supposed to be preloaded. They need a slight bit of axial play. Ball brgs need a VERY slight preload. There may be some mfgs specific situations different from this "rule of thumb" such as brgs on a ferrous shaft in an aluminum crankcase. DCD

 

[jameszmcnelley]

Thanks Ron, I have found its cheaper to feed a little DEERE, than a team of CLYDESDALES. HA!! Hi, Steven, the 5 lug hubs I installed came with the conical bearing set up and seal. I will later, up-grade the seal to a double lip type. and when the china bearings that came with the hubs play out, up-grade also. the reason I did all this was because EVERY THING was BEYOND wore out! I used new 4-ply v-61 tires. for drilling I have a 17'', 16 speed, 1&3/4 HP [developed], floor model, Craftsman drill press. [made in Taiwan of course] used a 5&1/2'' bench vise to hold axle for 1&1/8'' drilling of axle ends for bushings. this bit can be got on e-bay for $28 delivered. about $70 most other places. it held up flawlessly. 1'' bit is about $20 delivered. I already had this size. just a standard HSS bit. for a clamp to drill hole in axle stub, I used a cheap $20 BESSEY drill press vise from LOWES. 4'' OR 5'', not sure of the size, I am not in the shop at the moment. set your table at 18 degrees. make SURE every thing is set right and clamped and bolted down TIGHT. start with small drill bits and work up to 3/4''. then the 1''. I used 220 rpm for the 3/4 & 1'' sizes. I used some old used trans fluid for lubricant. every thing went perfect with me. nice smooth hole, good snug fit to king pin. be very carefull and SLOW when you get to the bottom of the hole with the largest bits!! got those thrust bearings delivered and installed. 3 piece sandwich type, needle bearing. size is 1''x1&9/16''x9/64'' thick. $10 each delivered, e-bay. vendors name is VXB out in Calif. have dealt with them several times. no complaints at all with them folks or their products to date. super fast shippers. concerning those Case 640series, I am not familiar with them. sure is a robust looking out-fit. concerning your 648, don't you DARE and re-paint it. I love that PATINA!! makes me miss my old Power King. J.Z.M.

 

[threeeighteen]

That 648 was built rugged. It is built for commercial use. It had 3 pt., power steering, rear hydraulics, rear A frame, nearly new ag tires, wheel weights, hydraulic tiller. I did not have it very long. It was repowered with a Kohler V-twin when I got it. The guy who bought it from me ran a good sized log splitter with the rear hydraulics. I probably should have never let it go, but almost everything I've ever let go I have since wished I had back.
Notice the Rotary Hoist it is sitting on? It what is referred to as a brake rack. The man who owned it ran an auto shop for many years. Told me he was going to hang it all up in a couple years and get rid of all his equipment. I asked him to let me know when he is ready to sell. 2 years later he called me. I had totally forgotten about it. Gave $500 for it and it was like new. I have had it for 8 or 9 years and it has weathered outside. It only lifts waist high to work on brakes without having to stoop over, but has it ever been handy. When I started working on gt's, I discovered it was just the right width to lift them up. I can r and r blades, and all kinds of stuff, even used it as a work platform for laying out and welding up a tandem axle trailer on it, and steel truck flatbed bodies. I think everyone should have one of these!

 

[jameszmcnelley]

Steven, the lift was the first thing I did notice. at first glance I thought it was one of those in the ground phneumatics from the 1950s & 60s. the kind you saw at service stations back in the good ol days. then I saw the lift cyl. bet that's not going anywhere soon. ha. J.Z.M.

 

[threeeighteen]

Oh yeah--in response to Dave Dunbar--
"PRELOAD" must have been the wrong terminology. What I should have said was: the tapered bearings can be adjusted up to have only a slight amount of wiggle. In my thinking, handling the kinds of loads and thrusts the bearings would endure with a FEL, it would not be good to have an inordinate amount of play. Additionally, using these hubs and bearings would allow one to clean and repack as a matter of regular maintenance. I would consider this modification even without using an FEL.